Dutch anthem does say (in -almost- modern language) "den Koning van Hispanje heb ik altijd geëerd" meaning basically what is said above. But subsequently the anthem points out that "Dat u de Spanjaards krenken, o edel Neerland zoet ... mijn edel hart dat bloedt" meaning "that the Spaniards injure you, sweet noble Low Country ... my noble heart bleeds". So the anthem is saying that "even though I have never attempted to hurt you, you are hurting us". Not so embarrassing then to try to do something about it.
What is perhaps embarrassing about it is that the first line says "Wilhelmus van Nassouwe ben ik, van Duitsen bloed den vaderland getrouwe", saying thus (you might think) "I Wilhelm being of German blood faithful to the Fatherland". Can't have gone down too well during the Second World War, I was thinking. Goes to show that the Dutch term "Duits" didn't then mean German in the way that it now does, so explaining the current confusion for English speakers between the English word "Dutch" and the German word "Deutsch". Hope that's clear now.
Maybe some people don't consider enthusiastically collaborating with the Nazis an embarrassment? You know, Pétain does still have a plaque to his name on Broadway's Canyon of Heroes...
+Etanna I think because the lyrics referenced above could be taken as advocating violence... ‘impure blood watering the land’ sounds pretty harsh! Calling it embarrassing’s maybe a bit of a stretch though; pretty much all the European national anthems have some similarly aggressive lines, most were written in a period when violent uprisings and border wars were the norm for the region... they reflect these (then) realities, I’d argue, instead of being essentially violent songs. History student lecture completed ;)
As someone said before: the "impure blood" is meant to be blood of the French people defendingg themselves against the "pure-blooded" nobility. It's ironic. Still *very* violent, though, but understandable given the historical context.
Clue could be "This country is able to quickly overwhelm and defeat France in 1870 and then again in 1940." Well, technically the first time it was the North German Confederation and not Germany, but we don't have any nitpickers on this site, right? ;)
-The "pants law": an old law no one knows about, not enforced since a very long time. I don't see how i can't be see as a national shame.
-De gaulle fifth republic: even if there is still to this day debates (in the leftwing) about this constitution, certainly no national shame or forgetable things (except for the algeria wars contest but that's an other question)
-Zidane headbutt: some critics publicly but in the end every frenchmen approves, certainly no shame or regret (except for the final result of the match..)
-Depardieu, who is indeed a living legend in france brought shame on himself with his many departures (belgium for taxe reason, Russia for the fun of pissing people). No shame here.
-Chanel: don't think anyone is ashamed about that either.
Didnt know azincourt is spelled agincourt in english (why though?).
Franco-prussian war of 1870 was way more embarassing.
Because this site is predominantly US centric, and therefore tends to have a bias for all things french. Notice the large amount of military loses in this quiz, following the myth of France always losing wars.
To the extent that there is any sense in being ashamed of anything you had no personal part in, as a Frenchman, I do find those chapters embarrassing. I also find that this quiz is generally very fair.
JackintheBox: "Den Koning van Hispanje heb ik altijd ge-eerd"
(The King of Spain I have always honored) is definitely a stanza in "Wilhelmus", (the Dutch National Anthem)! WHY it's still there, is another question.
It's tongue in cheek, but it's also mostly true. Here, for example, is an excerpt from Derrida:
This inflation of the sign "language" is the inflation of the sign itself, absolute inflation, inflation itself. Yet, by one of its aspects or shadows, it is itself still a sign: this crisis is also a symptom. It indicates, as if in spite of itself, that a historico-metaphysical epoch must finally determine as language the totality of its problematic horizon. It must do so not only because all that desire had wished to wrest from the play of language finds itself recaptured within that play but also because, for the same reason, language itself is menaced in its very life, helpless, adrift in the threat of limitlessness, brought back to its own finitude at the very moment when its limits seem to disappear, when it ceases to be selfassured, contained, and guaranteed by the infinite signified which seemed to exceed it.
I mean we can all take random excerpts from philosophy and argue that it's gibberish, but if you take the time to read something by Derrida in its entirety, I think you'll find it's a lot less challenging that it appears on the surface. Something like, say, The Spectre of Marx, is relatively straightforward. The complex language has more to do with the highly specific nature of academic language and the difficulties of translating French to English.
Derrida is challenging, but others who are tarred with the label of 'postmodernist' can be quite straightforward - Foucault's Discipline and Punish, for example, is very accessible (and indeed is often assigned to undergrads for precisely that reason).
But the argument that postmodernism is just artful bullshitting is weak and reminiscent of the 'cultural Marxism' conspiracy theory.
Derrida: "Without context, there is nothing." In an effort to discredit him you've taken a paragraph completely out of context - in this case the very specific context of definitions of terms - and pointed to the resulting nonsense as evidence against him. Hilariously, you've thereby proven him right!
Yeah, there are many harmful ideologies and postmodernism just isn't part of them, it can even be considered as the origin of the modern-day scientific method, so putting it together with warcrime is rather odd...
I'm not sure that the claim "the humanities have been ruined by postmodernism" is proven by taking one paragraph out of Derrida (no citation needed?) from the first hit off Google. To agree with Bringitonlarsons and Gokpor, the fact that you can't understand that paragraph (with no context, as they both pointed out) does not mean no one understands that paragraph. Plenty of disciplinary and philosophical work relies on particular language conventions and styles of writing that make sense within a particular body of work. I can read a paper on astrophysics and understand almost nothing; that doesn't mean the paper is necessarily bad, it just means that I haven't done the necessary study to enter into that conversation. While Derrida has some accessible texts like Bringitonlarsons said, he is a difficult thinker who demands a lot from his readers. As a result, there are plenty of lazy or bad faith readings of Derrida (including the nihilism accusation).
@Temudhan - the scientific method has existed for much longer than postmodernism has. @Clarisse - context might make the paragraph a bit more understandable, but I think the reason convoluted language is so prevalent in postmodernism is to make it more exclusionary. Every actual meaning contained in that paragraph could be expressed clearly and it would be easily understandable. But that can't happen because then everyone would see that there is no insightful meaning contained in the words - the statements are either false or tautological. This is different to astrophysics in that terms used in astrophysics that are not well understood, such as "neutron star", have to be described using language that can't easily be understood because most people have never seen and do not understand the concept of a neutron star. Everyone uses language, so it should be possible to talk about it in a way that people can understand. That said, other schools of philosophy are guilty of the same thing.
I agree, I don't understand how it can be preceived as an Embarrasing chapter in history, particularly when you take into account the influence post-structuralist thought has had in certain liberation movements.
Interestingly, "French theory" is almost never taught in French universities. American students are likely to be way more familiar with it than French students - which I think is the real embarrassment here, that France fails to teach its own thinkers!
For the uninitiated, complex fields of study may seem like nonsense. In the case of the humanities (and indeed even the social sciences), since they more or less are lacking in the empirical department (aggravated by the fact that we live in a very materialistic world), they are often seen as useless, intellectually masturbatory endeavours. Of course it doesn't help when thinkers like Derrida are intentionally obscure and byzantine. Some of them do tend to have their heads up their own asses.
... But to say that postmodernism "forever ruined the humanities" is a bit melodramatic. It's just a movement that made valuable contributions but, like it tends to happen with movements, was carried too far. And the mentioned nihilism (more like relativism) started way back in the 19th century.
Also, the tongue-in-cheek defense doesn't hold much water considering it'd be the only clue written that way. When all the other clues in the quiz are just facts to be taken at face value, it's natural to think this one was written in the same way.
After watching _A French Village_'s portrayal of the complexities of life in France under the German occupation, it's hard for me to get too worked up about Chanel's collaboration.
La Marseillaise is not embarassing and its 'violent' message was written at a time of war. How would you like it to go? "Come, invaders, make yourselves at home! Traitors and kings, return us to our old slavery"?
You are wrong about La Marseillaise. When we speak about impure blood, we mean OUR blood, the blood of the French revolutionaries, in opposition to the noble "blue" blood
nope, it's is the blood of the enemy. If you read the lyrics again you'll see that it's the most logical explanation : They come to take away our family from our arms, to kill them, they "low" like beasts so their blood must flow. This song was sung by soldiers as they were walking to the battle field. No revolutionaries, only a bunch of men singing in hopes of getting their courage up. Hope you'll understand me, my english isn't very good.
Guelan is right. The impure blood refers to the blood of the revolutionaries. It's still extremely violent, and wouldn't be my first choice for an anthem if we had to pick one now, but, as said, it's understandable in historical context.
Don't like the way opinion crept into this quiz. I don't come here for opinion. However, since you started it, not all would agree that tax increases reduce the quality of life (last question). USA with its lower taxes is 46th in the world in life expectancy and France with its high taxes is 20th (source: CIA world factbook). The rest of the world can't believe Americans do not use taxes to have a single payer health system and increase how long people live.
I think the gilets jaunes movement, while it started for tax reasons, is way more complex than that. I'm personally not a fan and would never have participated in it, because it's far too right-wing to me, but I hate that self-satisfied incompetent prick Macron with a burning passion, and with many many a good reason that has factored in to many a demonstration against him - not just the gilets jaunes. He gets a pass because he's not Donald Trump, but that's about the only thing he has going for him.
The way the clue is written, it sounds like the gilets jaunes had something against high taxes in general. I'm not sure that's the case. They were protesting against taxes that disproportionally affected the lower classes, and actually for higher taxes for the rich.
I'm not sure that's the case, camus. I know that the movement was diverse, and that people from all parts of the political spectrum have tried to co-opt it, but it did start as a revolt of people with cars against a carbon tax that would have made gas more expensive. That's not exactly the "lower classes" fighting for tax justice!
I didn't comment on how the movement started or who participates the most, gandalf. You are closer to the source but if my news bubble and some research don't misrepresent them, the gilets jaunes are a diverse group who share resentment against what they perceive as a neoliberal establishment. And while taxes do play a major role, part of their agenda is also to tax the rich more, although I don't know how much they push that goal. Anyway, the clue above is probably fine and I read more bias into it than there probably is.
I think it's more complicated than that. The movement definitely started against the carbon tax, and it's definitely anti-establishment to some degree, but it comes from all fronts. There are some left-wing protesters, sure, but I think the more prevalent opposition was provincial and rural France (where one, you know, has a car) against the big cities, and especially Paris. In such a centralised country as France, a lot of the provincial establishment considers itself anti-establishment because they're not Paris, but they might easily be richer than a lot of Parisians.
Depending on who you listen to in Germany, they are either heroes of the class struggle, racist and xenophobic bigots, or mindless hooligans, so it's clear that they come from all fronts :). But I didn't know that the rural-urban divide was so central, although it makes sense. It looks like this divide is becoming more and more relevant in many countries, as we've seen in the US of course and even here, where hip Berliners seem to assume that people in the countryside only drive cars because they don't understand climate change. No surprise it's so distinct in centralized France with Paris overpowering everything.
The conflict between city and country goes back a long time.
One could even read the French Revolution as the persecution and subjugation of the rural majority by the Parisien elites.
In the Vendeé, republicans rounded up priests, nuns, and people who supported them, tied them together, and drowned them in the Loire.
The rural folk might have done the same to the Paris radicals, if they had the power. But they didn't. They never really do.
By the way, if you have an immense amount of spare time, I highly recommend Mike Duncan's "Revolutions" podcast. The season devoted to the French Revolution is probably his best work.
There tends to be a very one-sided narrative about "Paris oppressing rural France", when in reality, you could also claim the exact opposite. I mean, look at what rural France did to the Paris Commune! France is obviously rules from Paris, but rather rarely by Parisians, and when it's ruled by Parisians, they have generally needed to go get elected somewhere in the deepest possible province first, to show that they're not "Parisian". Even now, although so many provincials will complain about Paris ruling them, Paris is the only city in the country that doesn't fully rule itself. Paris got its own mayor a full century after everyone else, and still doesn't control its own police to this day.
If you are going to put this quiz on the front page, then please change the Roman Polanski question. It is very disturbing, and indeed harsh if you wish to "keep it clean" for the few schools that rely on this site.
Other than China, why are all the quizzes you've made about "embarrassing chapters" in a nation's history about predominantly white countries? Why the hyper focus there? Why not expand that to include places like Turkey, Mexico, Congo, and India too?
This quiz is ridiculous. It's easy to rewrite history and to call something embarrassing. You just embarrassed yourself publishing this. This new form of puritanism, mixed with a feeling of superiority tends to be really tiring. Congrats!
How so? I find this series brilliant (and I'm French). There are quizzes about many countries, and undoubtedly more to follow. I can't stand the version of history that just glosses over or dismississes anything embarrassing in favour of some sort of rose-coloured "roman national" where your country is always heroic and leading the world to a brighter tomorrow. If we want to avoid repeating history, we need to learn from it - all of it. I can't think of a single country where that's not true, and if you can, there urgently needs to be a quiz about that country.
Also, plenty of this quiz is just a joke. Admittedly, a lot of it is quite serious (Nazi occupation, the Reign of Terror, Roman Polanski, etc.), but also a lot of them are really silly. Like having your wine taste worse than California's isn't super shameful, just mildly embarrassing considering France is famous for its wine. And, the postmodernism question is very tongue-in-cheek. There are a couple of others here that are very clearly not meant to be taken seriously, as is true of all of these country quizzes. That's one of the reasons why I love this series :)
Thank you. You are correct. Not only is this quiz meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but it's also intended as a badge of honor. France can withstand our slings and arrows and still remain one of the greatest cultures of all time.
BTW, I am huge Francophile, and have spent more time in France than any other country besides the United States.
The law about the forbidden pants would be embarassing only if it had to be followed. But since everyone ignored it and nobody had ever been punished for that, there were no reasons to remove it from the Laws...
Or you could argue that having such a law in the first place, and not even being able to enforce it, is double the embarrassment! Anyway, I'm glad it's gone.
I haven't read every comment so this may have been aDRESSed, but could you be embarrassed about a law banning women from wearing pants/trousers if you didn't know about it and had (probably) never seen it being enforced?
"Derrida forever ruins the humanities [with postmodernism]"...? Seriously?
A tax hike on the French, specifically over fuel prices, sparked the Yellow Vest movement, but you frame this to have been an anti-tax movement? It was incredibly clearly rooted in leftist ideas; take a look at their list of demands. It was a response to neoliberal economics.
Please be more subtle about your political biases, or, better yet, leave them out of a quiz, where they have no place, entirely.
Whether it ended up being "rooted in leftist idea" is debatable, but it is *not* debatable that the movement was started by people from semi-rural areas in France who did not want to pay more for gas. How the hell is that "leftist"???
WTF is this french bashing full with crap and false information quiz? Jetpubk used to be worth more than that...
France does not defend Polanski (he is even boycotted at major ceremonies). Gauguin certainly did not spread syphilis to tahiti. Algeria was not a colony. La marseillaise is not a "violent song" it is a war chant and is mostly metaphorical. De Gaulle did not make a coup and the fourth already collapsed. What the fuss about derrida ruining anything?
How are yellow jacket a shame to France.
I'm not even offended, just disappointed that Jetpunk is becoming twitter
Nul à chier, ça se voit que vous avez un problème avec la France, y'a la moitié dont on n'a pas honte du tout (voire on en est fiers, genre La Marseillaise)
As a frenchman, I have never heard about one of my countryman that would be ashamed of La Marseillaise or Zidane.
Without beeing deeply neo-colonialist, it seems difficult to me to be ashamed of losing a decolonization war (according to the political climate of that time) rather than the colonization itself.
without claiming to be a military specialist, it doesn't seem to me that 8000 vs 10000 is much smaller. No shame in losing against archers, only the result of a successful English strategy. As for the peasants, this is only the result of the ost, which is in force in both countries.
The importance of the pants law is derisory.
For Gauguin and Chanel: how should a country be ashamed of the behavior of two of its citizens? Shouldn't we give priority to questions related to France as a State? Certainly a misunderstanding of the concept of responsibility.
Still, "I have always honoured the king of Spain" is much more embarassing (Dutch anthem).
-The "pants law": an old law no one knows about, not enforced since a very long time. I don't see how i can't be see as a national shame.
-De gaulle fifth republic: even if there is still to this day debates (in the leftwing) about this constitution, certainly no national shame or forgetable things (except for the algeria wars contest but that's an other question)
-Zidane headbutt: some critics publicly but in the end every frenchmen approves, certainly no shame or regret (except for the final result of the match..)
-Depardieu, who is indeed a living legend in france brought shame on himself with his many departures (belgium for taxe reason, Russia for the fun of pissing people). No shame here.
-Chanel: don't think anyone is ashamed about that either.
Didnt know azincourt is spelled agincourt in english (why though?).
Franco-prussian war of 1870 was way more embarassing.
https://www.jetpunk.com/quizzes/april-fools-quiz-3
Nice sarcasm, btw.
(The King of Spain I have always honored) is definitely a stanza in "Wilhelmus", (the Dutch National Anthem)! WHY it's still there, is another question.
Derrida is challenging, but others who are tarred with the label of 'postmodernist' can be quite straightforward - Foucault's Discipline and Punish, for example, is very accessible (and indeed is often assigned to undergrads for precisely that reason).
But the argument that postmodernism is just artful bullshitting is weak and reminiscent of the 'cultural Marxism' conspiracy theory.
By the way, I didn't go looking for some particularly stupid quote from Derrida. I just did a Google search and quoted the first thing I found.
(continued...)
Also, the tongue-in-cheek defense doesn't hold much water considering it'd be the only clue written that way. When all the other clues in the quiz are just facts to be taken at face value, it's natural to think this one was written in the same way.
When there is a choice, I believe that the simpler option is usually best. The extra dashes feel fussy.
One could even read the French Revolution as the persecution and subjugation of the rural majority by the Parisien elites.
In the Vendeé, republicans rounded up priests, nuns, and people who supported them, tied them together, and drowned them in the Loire.
The rural folk might have done the same to the Paris radicals, if they had the power. But they didn't. They never really do.
By the way, if you have an immense amount of spare time, I highly recommend Mike Duncan's "Revolutions" podcast. The season devoted to the French Revolution is probably his best work.
BTW, I am huge Francophile, and have spent more time in France than any other country besides the United States.
I don't feel it embarassing at all but ok.
If only changing the spelling of a place was the worst part about losing a war...
A tax hike on the French, specifically over fuel prices, sparked the Yellow Vest movement, but you frame this to have been an anti-tax movement? It was incredibly clearly rooted in leftist ideas; take a look at their list of demands. It was a response to neoliberal economics.
Please be more subtle about your political biases, or, better yet, leave them out of a quiz, where they have no place, entirely.
France does not defend Polanski (he is even boycotted at major ceremonies). Gauguin certainly did not spread syphilis to tahiti. Algeria was not a colony. La marseillaise is not a "violent song" it is a war chant and is mostly metaphorical. De Gaulle did not make a coup and the fourth already collapsed. What the fuss about derrida ruining anything?
How are yellow jacket a shame to France.
I'm not even offended, just disappointed that Jetpunk is becoming twitter
As a frenchman, I have never heard about one of my countryman that would be ashamed of La Marseillaise or Zidane.
Without beeing deeply neo-colonialist, it seems difficult to me to be ashamed of losing a decolonization war (according to the political climate of that time) rather than the colonization itself.
without claiming to be a military specialist, it doesn't seem to me that 8000 vs 10000 is much smaller. No shame in losing against archers, only the result of a successful English strategy. As for the peasants, this is only the result of the ost, which is in force in both countries.
The importance of the pants law is derisory.
For Gauguin and Chanel: how should a country be ashamed of the behavior of two of its citizens? Shouldn't we give priority to questions related to France as a State? Certainly a misunderstanding of the concept of responsibility.
De Gaulle never rose to power after a coup.
Rainbow has been sunk by secret service