well technically, most of palestine is mainly controlled by israel, but its not really absorebed by it, just mostly surrounded, i would like to see palestine regocnized as it can be 197/197 along with israel too it just seems weird just not having them but it kind of seems odd having them, idk your choice though
Regardless of the political issues, they are not a full UN member and unlike the Vatican who chose to be an observer, Palestine wasn’t given the option to fully join.
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Following the withdraw, free elections were held and the terrorist group Hamas was brought to power in the Gaza strip. After the election, Israel, with the aid of Egypt, blockaded Gaza, but they did not re-occupy it. Neither Israel nor Egypt claims Gaza as part of their territory, and since the region is still under the control of Hamas, which is not the PNA or Fatah, it can't accurately be called part of Palestine, either.
Hamas is definitely a terrorist organization, and they have done nothing to help the people that they claim to be fighting for. In many ways they have been worse for the "Palestinians" than the Israelis could ever hope to be.
I've heard. I'm sure I know more about this subject than you do, Mr. Ginger Ale man. Very few of the actions taken by the Israeli government or military could accurately be described as terrorist, though they get painted that way all the time by the many who hate the country for existing. A case could be made for some. Some of the actions taken during Operation Cast Lead spring to mind.
However, in the majority of definitions used for the word terrorist, state actors are excluded out of hand.
Terrorism is more about what you do than what you're fighting for. The IRA fought for the liberation of Northern Ireland from the UK, which is a fair enough cause...but they did it by blowing up cars in crowded areas, so...terrorism. Likewise, there could be constructed a legitimate grievance against the US's presence in the Middle East. That doesn't justify flying planes into buildings.
exactly. Terrorism is violence or destruction directed specifically and purposefully at random civilians or public property. It's not about achieving strategic goals, it's about scaring ordinary people into thinking that they might be hit next. The tactic of terrorism was almost universally condemned before the meaning of the word got so clouded by people who didn't understand it or who just wanted to try and apply it to everyone they don't like.
'Terrorism' is the unlawful use of violence, usually against civilians, in pursuit of political aims. Israel has, and still does, definitely use terrorist tactics. They destroy civilian infrastructure and implement collective punishment, for example. Not to mention the several Israeli leaders who were prominent members of terrorist organisations, some even proudly declaring themselves 'terrorists'. Which is not to say Hamas or the PLO aren't just as guilty, but a bit of balance never hurts.
You can find a vastly superior and significantly more defensible definition to the word terrorism on the above linked quiz. The one you're promoting here is confusing, overbroad, historically disfavored, and, in fact, dangerous. When terrorism starts to mean anything you want to label as unlawful or unjustified it's easy to abuse this for nefarious ends. Or the word becomes meaningless leading to denouncing terrorism being equally meaningless. Though I know from past conversations that we differ on the importance of applying consistent and uniform standards across the board, including to Israel. Personally I think this is very important.
and if this isn't already clear, defining something as "a thing that is unlawful" is meaningless because laws vary from place to place and change based on the whims of politicians or despots. There is no such thing as international law, not in any real or binding way. There are only treaties and conventions that countries sometimes choose to abide by and other times do not. Neglecting to go with a clearer and more specific definition leads to all of the bad things I mentioned in the last comment.
Goodness me kalbahamut, need I remind you of May 2021, where Israeli attacks on Gaza led to 242 deaths, 63 of them being children. I'd argue that's pretty unlawful and an act of terrorism.
Also responding to ZIZI's comment, Israel's attacks on Gaza started after Hamas fired rockets into Israel hitting civilian residences and a SCHOOL, killing several children and injuring hundreds of Israeli citizens. Israel fired rockets back at Hamas as retribution. Also more than half a dozen of the Palestinian children killed were killed as a result of friendly fire. Palestinian terrorists launched 4,360 rockets into civilian Israeli territory, but you seem to only have an issue when Israel fires back.
Can NIS (New Israeli Shekel) and ILS (the ISO code for Israel's currency) also be accepted for the question about currency? To be pedantic, a shekel is an ancient unit of weight, while the currency of Israel is one of the above.
I think this is just a play on "Israel" looking so much like "Is real." I remember a teacher showing us that in like third grade. I think she just thought it was funny. Or maybe she was pushing Zionism on us.
Well that’s kinda rude. Although I agree that Palestine’s current tactic is not working. I honestly believe that both groups have valid claims to the land and deserve to be countries in their own right. I just don’t know how we would go about that.
honestly yeah but i do think israel deserved to come back after years to take it back, palestine still hasa chance they just havent risen yet because most people just spam #freepalestine in the comments section on every thing that actually has comments instead of actually going to help serve for them and uprise for them, in my opinion palestinians doing that would just feel kind of stupid because saying #freepalestine once isnt going to make a difference, kind of the same with calling israel trash or isnotreal, isfake, etc because its stupid youre not doing anything to offend israels government or help palestine just become stronger on just one comment
It's the other way around - Palestine is Israeli land. It was the homeland of the Jews for over 1,000 years until a colonizing and conquering Roman emperor, Hadrian, threw them out and changed the land's name to Syria Palestina. He did this to effectively "de-Jewify" the place and tell the Jews "Don't ever come back!"
Well, now the Jews are back and have re-adopted the earlier name of the place before Roman colonization (and, of course, LONG before the Muslim Conquest of the 7th century).
Ah yes, the Mossad. That agency that shot Kennedy because he wanted to monitor the Dimona nuclear power plant if it produced nuclear weapons or not (it did and still does).
That would just invite a very hostile debate in the comments. QM seems content to let things proceed at a low simmer, but people aren't really welcome to get into very ugly politics. Which is for the best, I think.
Can I quote you on this next time someone in another comments section posts something like "we get it Kal. You hate Conservatives and Republicans. Give it a rest already!" open your mind and learn to think for yourself. And I've been commenting a lot less the past couple of months but might be hard for you to notice as there are comments on many quizzes going back to 2012.
Finally, there is nothing "progressive" about Pablo's comment above. Israel is by far the most progressive country in the Middle East. There's nothing progressive about wishing for it to be overrun by violent tribalists who are very much less progressive than the Israelis. It's just good ol' regular anti-semitism by a different name and of a slightly different flavor, filtered and distilled through various intermediaries starting with Husayni, al-Banna, Nasser and Arafat, working its way through Habash, Guevara, the UN and Newton, delivered to your doorstep by Chomsky, Foucault, Sarsour, et al.
If you want to see how a real progressive views these issues look up some books, videos, essays, TED Talks or whatever by any of the following... Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, Sarah Haider (not as well regarded as an intellectual but still good), Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins (not true progressives in any sense but still very liberal), Reza Aslan (I wouldn't highly recommend his take, though still better than those I listed above), or Aayan Hirsi Ali (not very progressive, but again, better than those listed in the previous comment). Harris and Nawaz is a good starting point. They have a much better grasp of progressive values as they relate to the Muslim world than most self-described progressives do these days. And they don't engage in the casual and sinister racism of low expectations and cultural relativism - which is not progressive at all.
bro i said this a million times on a bunch of other comments, both are real places and also saying something to offend israel and help palestine just by saying #freepalestine wont do anything because palestine is still the same thing, if you actually want to help palestine serve for them and actually fight israel
Israel the country was established in 1948, but has been a kingdom since ancient times, you know, until the Ottomans conquered it, and then England secured it during the crusades and after WW1, before making it its own nation in '48
You missed a HUGE chunk of history there.... the original Kingdom of Israel broke apart into two successor states: Israel/Samaria and Judah. The northern kingdom was conquered by the Neo-Assyrians. Then both were conquered by the Neo-Babylonians. Then the Egyptians again. Then the Babylonians again. Then the Persians. Then Seleucia. Then the independent Jewish Hasmonean kingdom sprung up. Then the Romans. There was a short-lived Jewish kingdom that revolted against the Romans that was destroyed by Vespasian and Titus. After that the area stopped being called Judah and was renamed Palestine. Roman Empire broke into two so then it was the Byzantines. Then the Persians again. Then the Byzantines again. Then the Arab Rashiduns. Then the Umayyads. Then the Abbasids. Then the Mamluks, Fatimids, Seljuqs, Fatimids again, Christian Crusaders, Ayyubids, more Crusaders, more Ayyubids, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mamluks again, and finally the Ottomans. and then the British.
This is somewhat comparable to relating the history of England as such:
there were many disunified indigenous tribes there until the Romans moved in, and then, you know, David Cameron put Brexit to a vote and so the UK withdrew from the Roman Empire.
Except in your case add an additional 500 years to the unexplained gap. :)
But this does put a nice spotlight on the huge and baffling blank spot most Westerners have in their heads when it comes to the history of this extremely important region...
Israel has always been in some kind of conflict, From being conquered by Egypt, to Battling the Philistines, to getting conquered by Babylon, to having many people fleeing and moving to Persia, to being conquered BY the Persians, to being conquered by the Greeks, to being conquered by the Romans, to being conquered by the Byzantine Empire, by being conquered by Islamic people "from the east", to being conquered by the Ottomans, to being a British colony, to becoming a free country, to literally fighting everyone around them, (Six days and Yom Kippur), to now having a little De Facto state on their back, named the West Bank, or Palestine
it would make sense from a logistical, security, and diplomatic standpoint. Though it would cost a lot of money for something that is really kind of masturbatory and pointless. It should not have been moved from Tel Aviv in the first place. That's the sort of thing only an ignorant orange-tinted fool would think was a good idea. But since it's there already... y'know... whatever.
He has said that Israel has a right to exist and defend itself. Which they do. Not much of a defense of Israel, but it will get painted as such by those hypocrites and religious bigots who feel Israel does not have a right to exist. US policy since the Kennedy administration has been generally favorable and supportive toward Israel, though usually quite even handed when compared to policy toward Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. And Biden is a mainstream center-left Democrat who has been in politics since 1972. Wouldn't expect any radical changes in direction coming from him.
and I don't expect Biden or any similarly centrist and pragmatic US president in the future to move the embassy again, either. Moving it in the first place was stupid, unnecessary, expensive, and contrary to US interests. It invited controversy and criticism for zero gain. But... once the embassy is located somewhere... nobody really cares anymore. It disappears from political relevance. Moving it again would invite more criticism and controversy, incur more expense, and net the US a similarly negligible or non-existent level of benefit. Moving it in either direction is just pandering to one group of people or the other. And while Biden certainly is not above pandering, I really don't think he will in this case as his pragmatism usually wins out over his impulse to pander.
bro i said this a million times on a bunch of other comments, both are real places and also saying something to offend israel and help palestine just by saying #freepalestine wont do anything because palestine is still the same thing, if you actually want to help palestine serve for them and actually fight israel
I LITERALLY COPIED AND PASTED THIS FOR ANOTHER GUY WHO DOESNT UNDERSTNAD THIS IS MY SECOND TIME SAYING IT WHAT THE HECK, IT WAS ALSO ON THIS QUIZ
Should accept "NIS" (New Israeli Shekel) for the currency, it is the name of Israel's currency and the acronym is used both officially and colloquially.
However, in the majority of definitions used for the word terrorist, state actors are excluded out of hand.
Medi-terra = Middle Earth (then just add the -nean!)
This is also why the dogs TERRiers were named, as they dig a lot!
Well, now the Jews are back and have re-adopted the earlier name of the place before Roman colonization (and, of course, LONG before the Muslim Conquest of the 7th century).
This isn't Reddit.
Finally, there is nothing "progressive" about Pablo's comment above. Israel is by far the most progressive country in the Middle East. There's nothing progressive about wishing for it to be overrun by violent tribalists who are very much less progressive than the Israelis. It's just good ol' regular anti-semitism by a different name and of a slightly different flavor, filtered and distilled through various intermediaries starting with Husayni, al-Banna, Nasser and Arafat, working its way through Habash, Guevara, the UN and Newton, delivered to your doorstep by Chomsky, Foucault, Sarsour, et al.
there were many disunified indigenous tribes there until the Romans moved in, and then, you know, David Cameron put Brexit to a vote and so the UK withdrew from the Roman Empire.
Except in your case add an additional 500 years to the unexplained gap. :)
But this does put a nice spotlight on the huge and baffling blank spot most Westerners have in their heads when it comes to the history of this extremely important region...
I LITERALLY COPIED AND PASTED THIS FOR ANOTHER GUY WHO DOESNT UNDERSTNAD THIS IS MY SECOND TIME SAYING IT WHAT THE HECK, IT WAS ALSO ON THIS QUIZ
Both Israel and Palestine are countries...