I don't know when we'll update this. Covid has thrown everything for a loop. We might just discontinue it. Rankings like this become a political game at some point, even if they originally started as an effort at an objective ranking. What's particularly strange is that these cities are downright hostile to the middle class. How many normal people are buying an apartment in Vancouver or Zurich nowadays, let alone a single-family house. There's a case to be made that Columbus, Ohio is a better place to live for a normal person than any of these places.
I haven't visited many of the cities on this list. Only 3 to be honest. Amsterdam, Berlin, and Toronto.
I would definitely consider living in Amsterdam. Cool city. I would put up with the terrible climate to try living there for a while. I would definitely pass on Berlin and Toronto. Of the cities that I have not visited on the list, I think I would like to try Vienna, Zurich, Geneva, Copenhagen, Sydney and Melbourne. Stockholm maybe if I got to live somewhere else at least 8 months out of the year. The rest... no interest in at all.
And, for me personally, I can think of at least several hundred cities I would prefer to live in over any of these. Mostly in East and SE Asia, Latin America, and the United States. Europe and Canada are very overrated. I hear good things about Australia but I've never been there before so can't comment.
I don't know what it is you feel is overrated about Canada, But Australia is very similar to Canada in my opinion as a Canadian who lived in Australia for over a year. Main difference is obvious, climate. But culturally, and in terms of the way the cities look and feel, they are very similar.
And as a Torontonian who has done a bunch of travelling, even I feel like it's placement on the list is a little high. As far as cities go, there's nothing wrong with it, but I've been to a few cities that I think would be way nicer to live in.
Climate is very important to me. That is one difference. Maybe the cultural differences are minor but for whatever reason I tend to get along much better with Australians than Canadians. Again, I've never visited Australia, so I can't really say how much I'd like it there for sure and I'm only speculating. I also haven't spent that much time in Canada.
Update: I've now been to Vienna, Munich, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Berlin, Toronto, Hamburg, and Stockholm.
In general my opinion of these places, versus my expectations prior to visiting them, has been revised down.
I would like to reiterate the paramount importance of climate. So many of these German and Scandinavian cities are dark, dreary, rainy, and frigidly cold- not what I would call livable. I was in most of them in the summer and they were still unpleasant.
I'd also like to double down on the cost of living thing. It makes a huge huge difference. When it costs $95 for a bunk bed in a hostel dormitory in Zurich, and $30 for a high-rise condo on the beach in Odessa with floor-to-ceiling windows overlooking the Black Sea (I've stayed in both)... this makes a difference in your quality of life. People who can afford to live comfortably some place like Albania or the Philippines would literally be bums if they were transported to Switzerland.
If you were in Scandanavia during the summer, how can you call them dark, when it´s only dark for a couple of hours during the night? I grant you, that it can rain a lot, but on a sunny summer day, we are able to jump into the harbour and canals for a swim in the middle of the city, because the water is so clean here in Copenhagen. I´d also like to point out that it´s extreme heat is not something everyone enjoys. For me, if the weather is above 25 degrees celcius and sunny, I´d rather stay indoor, if I´m not able to go for a dip in the water. Summer rain on the other hand is awesome. The winters here are quite warm compare to the latitude and we rarely see any snow in Copenhagen.
I said "so many," and meant the following list of adjectives to be interpreted to mean that some of these apply but not all. Most of the summer days I spent in Stockholm were pretty pleasant. The sky *never* getting dark in Vilnius (I was there in June) was perhaps a bit too much light, actually. I found this unsettling. But the cities further West, many of which make the list, were often overcast with cold drizzly rain even on days with a long period of daylight. Also, I said I was in "most" of them in the summer. Some I visited in late Autumn. So I know how quickly those long summer days disappear.
I know my taste in climate isn't equal to everyone's. Just speaking to my own preferences.
I think it matters what you are used to, if you grew up in a very warm and sunny place, everything else will feel dark and cold. And ofcourse your own constitution.
I like bright skies (but can thoroughly enjoy storms) but I am not one of those that feels like the hotter the better. 17degrees is more than more enough 20 is fine too but over 25 I get seriously ill and even in the shade is unpleasant, in the sun is not even an option. (and then you see people still with long pants and sweaters, and I think what?? I am totally incapacitated)>
Atm it is about 12 degrees and very very sunny, lovely ! it is not shorts and tshirt weather anymore, but it is really nice. And the sun is still very hot your face still burns. (I hate sunless and drizzling weather though, if it is dark, let it pour and storm and thunder!)
Dating scene, people, entertainment, culture, food, etc. also really important. DrunkenGandalf in one of his rare moments of clarity was absolutely right when he pointed out most of these places are boring.
Brief impressions of each:
1. Vienna: dreary weather. Beautiful downtown. Nice architecture. Nice open public spaces. Otherwise a bit dull. Wouldn't want to live here.
2. Munich: amazing food. Attractive women. Very expensive by German standards. Germans in general though are uptight. Might consider living here briefly.
3. Copenhagen: Scandinavia is so overrated but this place is alright-ish. Too expensive but cheaper than further north. Most absurd bridge toll I've ever seen in my life. Don't think I'd live here.
4. Amsterdam: too expensive and cold but as stated previously still one of the places I like most in Europe. Would live here for a while.
5. Berlin: reasonably cheap for Western Europe. Less boring than most of these cities. A bit dreary. Maybe
Entertainment, social-cultural environment are taken into account with these scores. (not saying that I 100% agree with the list, but it is not like you imply, they have just looked at health and safety and education for instance, they included the things that make a city interesting to live in aswell.)
6. Toronto: haven't been here since I was a child. I don't really know. I just remember that Niagra Falls was much nicer on the Canadian side of the border.
7. Hamburg: a bit sleazy, and if you're into that sort of sleaze... you won't get your money's worth here. Plenty of scams and rip-offs. But much cheaper than nearby Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Some parts of downtown are okay. Met some surprisingly friendly people, for Germans. But wouldn't want to live here.
8. Stockholm: I thought I would like it. Was disappointed. Nice, but.. Very anti-septic. Very dull. Don't really care for the culture overall- some good some bad. Hate how car-hostile downtown area is. Insanely expensive, though not as bad as Norway. People are a bit stand-offish. Good food. Well stocked groceries. Some nice museums. Wouldn't want to live here though, even in the summer. Can't imagine how awful it would be in the winter.
nafe: ...I don't feel like ranking them but in no particular order: San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Washington, Honolulu, Bangkok, Cebu, Tokyo, Seoul, Singapore, Hong Kong, Jerusalem, Odessa, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, San Luis Obispo, Orlando, Amsterdam, London, Thessaloniki, maybe Manama, maybe Moscow or St Petersburg (would have serious reservations about the weather, though), maybe Paris.
I've never been to Spain. Never been to Australia. Never been to Costa Rica. You can see my travel map in my profile. I have a feeling I'd like some of those places.
I thinking you're getting confused between nice cities to live in and nice cities to visit. Because one city has a lower cost of living, may mean that you find it not expensive, especially coming from a more affluent country. But the moment you live there and earn the wages of that city, than that argument goes out the window.
^ that really depends on how you live and I can think of plenty of situations where my argument is still firmly on this side of the window. Consider..
#1 someone who is retired or semi-retired and living off of savings.
#2 someone who works from their laptop making the same wages and doing the same work regardless of where they sleep at night.
#3 someone whose experience or skill set allows them to find good well-paying jobs virtually anywhere, even in "poor" countries where the locals might have depressed wages.
Then also consider the fact that in most of these "affluent" countries, getting work can be considerably more difficult. Economies of these countries tend to be more protectionist when it comes to jobs and their workforce. There is often a lot of bureaucratic red tape involved in getting a work visa. You may have to work illegally if you want to work at all, and likely accept lower wages.
On the other hand in many "poor" countries foreigners can expect to receive salaries far above what locals are paid because their skills may be more rare and in demand and the local employers understand that the foreigners are used to receiving a higher salary. Maybe you won't get paid quite as much as you would in Switzerland... but you might still get paid 2-4x what a local could expect to get for the same work and given the lower cost of living, live quite comfortably on that.
Taxes in these countries are typically substantially lower, as well.
In summation, no, I'm not confused at all. I'm definitely thinking about places I would like to live, not just visit.
It is definitely a matter of opinion. Some people wont mind noisy polluted less safe places aslong as there is a lot of life and oppurtunity to go out. For others this doesnt sound attractive at all and rather be in a place more safe and less polluted but perhaps more boring by average standards, but they get their enjoyment from nature and quiet, instead of crowded and bussiness so it is still enjoyable to them.
Personally I love the opportunities a city has, there is allways something you can do, a lot of courses you can take, and it usually matters less how you look. But to have to life there everyday is probably not for me. A car unfriendly center sounds great, tht actually sounds like a big plus. I need my nature and my quiet (though not in the best street for quiet, some very loud people unfortunately, but trafficwise it is quiet and not polluted either). Places like canada and scandinavia sound great to me (but their big cities still not too much).
You're forgetting some very basic bits that play a huge role in quality of life, like access to healthcare and education, pollution, working justice system, crime rate, work culture (wages, hours, benefits), equality, human rights. It's not just about how nice a city is for a tourist or an ex-pat but about what your chances in life would be if you were born in one of the cities at random (possibly as a poor, orphan girl, or a boy into a rich family).
Also, Scandinavia might be a bit cold and dark in the winter but we rarely have any heat waves where the temperatures climb over +30C for long periods of time (well, it didn't even reach 25C once over here last year), no earthquakes, tornadoes, extreme flooding, extreme cold/snowstorms, drought etc. Clean water and air for all and so forth.
I'm not forgetting any of that. I'm not a tourist. I am a nomad. I've actually lived many of these places. And you're wrong about it not being what life is like for an ex-pat.... that's actually *exactly* what Mercer's list is about. They are not ranking quality of life for poor orphans.
european cities are better adapted to living not just tourism, american cities are better suited for tourism than european cities but european cities are better at accomodation
I think you've actually got this precisely backwards. Many European cities, and some entire "countries" (see: San Marino) are all about tourism and little else. There aren't many places like that in the United States outside of Orlando.
It all depends on what one calls 'liveable'. I have visited just about all of these cities and lived in a few, and several not mentioned but mentioned by jet-punkers. For my two-penneth worth the most liveable city I found in years of travelling and working is Adelaide in South Australia. Not too crowded, not too expensive, great year round temperature with a beautiful Autumn and Spring to add variety. No long freezing cold winters with snow and slush . Low crime rate. Close to good beaches. Great sporting facilities. World class broadband internet. Festivals and shows. Short distance to several wine growing areas such as Barossa Valley, Wonderful Adelaide Hills for scenery and English style countryside. Roads not too crowded compared to many listed. Possible to walk around without feeling threatened 'Day & Night'. Great food grown locally and hundreds of top class restaurants including all terrific ethnic types .... That's why I live in the Adelaide Hills... I could have gone anywhere
yeah exactly. Everybody's got different ideas about what they would want or need out of a place they called home. Mercer's very narrow and to-many-irrelevant list of criteria doesn't give a very comprehensive view at all. They just focus on a few data points, some of which are not important to many people, while at the same time ignoring many other very significant factors... and then slap the overbroad label "livability" on it... so they end up with a crap list. I mean, OBVIOUSLY, with any list like this so crowded with European and Canadian cities, climate and weather was not considered at all. And that's a huge factor for most people. Monocle's list consider's climate. Mercer's does not. Few or none of these lists consider cost of living, which makes a giant difference ($10k in Bangkok will afford you a much better life than in Zurich); none of them attempt to gauge (somewhat subjective) things like culture, local cuisine, fun, sexual attitudes, or availability of quality women.
availability of quality women???? hellooo??? Am guessing (hoping) that was somewhat tongue in cheek.... Mind you I suppose 'tendency towards unpleasantly sexist attitudes towards women' might contribute to a negative score on my own personal list of liveability so I guess, as you say, it is all very subjective...
Why would that be a joke? Finding partners to have a fulfilling romantic/sexual fulfillment with is a vital component of mental health and emotional/biological contentedness. It could make an enormous difference in someone's life. And yes, it's subjective. Just as you might want to avoid healthy sex-positive people that your perverse worldview forces you to see as unpleasantly sexist, I would similarly want to avoid cities with too many deranged prudes with attitudes like your own. There are cultural, genetic, economic, social and demographic factors at play here. Absolutely worth considering. And the same goes for women.
What sangfroid said. I'm all for sexual liberation and would def include healthy attitude to sex (as fun, fulfilling, important to sense of contendedness etc etc) in part of my own personal liveability scale. It ain't what you say, it's how you say it. Uptight? Nah, not in real life. But sometimes it feels worth challenging a throwaway comment because if nobody ever does, it's easy to end up in a society where treating women (people) as objects is deemed ok. (@camus, no of course I don't think Kal going to rape anybody...!)
Stein: the women who would see that comment as derogatory are not the sort I'd want to get to know anyway. I speak openly and honestly and without shame about these subjects. I enjoy knowing people who are similar, as rare as they are. Nobody... NOBODY.. would be upset by a woman saying she would like to live somewhere with quality men, eligible bachelors, or a lively dating scene. It's not objectifying anyone it's stating something about your own needs matter-of-factly. I'm not sexist and don't believe in double standards, so I'm not going to tiptoe around this just because I know people will overreact.
Helen: you've proven time and again you are not worth responding to. I'm only nasty to those who go out of their way to deserve it. You've left plenty of undeserved nasty comments on my own quizzes.
Reminds me of Jane Austen's 'Pride and Prejudice;.......“It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife”
The Pride and Prejudice quote was Elizabeth's tongue-in-cheek comment to her sister regarding their mother's comment when her mother learned a wealthy young man had just moved into their neighborhood, and Mother Bennett immediately began scheming to get one of her daughters married to him. So, Kal, perhaps you'd also better add "lack of scheming mothers" to your best city requirements. :)
These lists are always so arbitrary, anyway. When I was young my list would have been much different than it is today as a retiree, and when raising our children it would have been yet a different list. Now I'd rate highly any place that has low taxes, cheap living, good transportation, happy people, good medical care, good air and water, and no mosquitoes or buffalo gnats/black flies. If anyone finds that place, please let me know. (Unfortunately, some of those requirements cancel each other out.)
OMG YES HAHA. This is the best thing ever. Thanks for sending me to a reading website. I can finally read how ridiculous you sound XD. I appreciate it very very much, lord praise you. XD
If the list were 70% American cities you'd be applauding mercer for being geniuses. I'd bet my bottom dollar on that. But since it has no American cities it's irrelevant and narrow-minded
I've been to cities in america. there nice but not nice to live in. plus the people are just so rude. hence why 4 canadian cities made the list none from the USA.
No.... nope... I looked. "gun toting idiocy" does not appear anywhere on Mercer's list of criteria. I did find it however on the "Bigot's Guide to International Stereotypes." Maybe you got the two guides confused.
From Wikipedia: "The cities — 221 in total — were evaluated on 39 factors including political, economic, environmental, personal safety, health, education, transportation and other public service factors." So until US cities can solve the issues of gun crimes, car pollution/lack of public transport, universal health care and free/cheap education, I can't see how any US city can be considered livable.
Right that's why millions of people go to great lengths to move there every year to live. It's just impossible to do so and they are looking for a challenge. Between constantly choking on smog, walking because the BART system is completely broken down, all the while dodging bullets on Fisherman's Wharf as it's practically a warzone, how could anyone possibly live in San Francisco? It's inconceivable!
Meanwhile in the real world, some of my European friends who have actually visited the United States tell me they're amazed they can go out walking in the city and get back home and the bottoms of their shoes are still clean. I lived there 30 years and never once witnessed a violent crime take place. I received so much in federal and state financial aid during college I made a profit. and public transport in many cities is perfectly fine.
I don't especially want to live in the US, but seriously, you people are hilarious.
Not sure why Americans get so upset about this. When you look at the scores, the difference between Vienna (108.6), Stockholm (104.5) and San Francisco (103.0) are very small, meaning that most Western developed cities are generally quite livable (New York gets a base score of 100). This is particularly true when comparing to the most livable cities in the Middle East (Dubai = 87.0) or Africa (Port Louis = 87.7).
So not getting to the top of the table doesn't imply that Mercer thinks that people getting shot daily at Fisherman Wharf. No need to get emotional here.
I'm not emotional and I'm not upset about the Mercer rankings. I'm pointing out how incredibly dumb your comment is. As if the cutoff between "among the most liveable cities on Earth" and "can't possibly be considered livable" is 1.5 points. And you seem to be on my side with your second comment. So why are you so emotional?
"Right that's why millions of people go to great lengths to move there every year to live."
Most people who move to the US come from countries that are less well-off. Is the US more livable to them than the country they left behind? Yes. Is it more livable than a big number of European countries/Australia/Canada/etc.? Nope.
I've had two of my friends visit the US before (one of them was on the west coast for 2 weeks, the other on the east coast for a whole month - she stayed at a friend's place). While both liked their time in America just fine, they both said they would never want to live there, for different reasons each.
CrayCray.. so what? Doesn't change my argument and the fact remains the US receives many more immigrants than any other country on Earth. 20% of all people in the world living in a foreign country live in the United States. Your two friends' commentary doesn't change that.
Have you ever noticed that the most developed parts of Europe prefer beer and the ones that are (slightly) less developed prefer wine? The same situation repeats in this quiz.
Let's look further down the list... Wait... So the places with the lowest alcohol consumption are the least liveable? I'd doubt that's the only factor determining the place on the list. Just as the beer/wine "divide" is likely to have very little to do with it.
Clearly whoever made this list hasn't visited the Turkish-majority districts of Berlin, Dusseldorf, Munich, etc in Germany. Plus, cities like Seattle and Denver are FAAAR cleaner and friendlier than Stockholm and Zurich. Vienna is a nice city though :-)
What do you mean? According to drunkengandalf there are absolutely zero bad neighborhoods in the entire continent of Europe. There are no disadvantaged Turks or Arabs in Germany or France. No rough neighborhoods in London. Certainly no child prostitutes standing on the street corners of Kiev, Prague, Bratislava, Bucharest, Constanta, Sofia, Varna, Minsk, Warsaw, well... pretty much everywhere. Definitely no unemployed youth in Spain. Certainly no anarchist riots in Athens. No crime at all in Istanbul, Moscow, or Chechnya. Nope. It's just a blissful utopian paradise from the Atlantic to the Urals the likes of which the sorry saps living in Beverly Hills, Waikiki Beach, Ft Lauderdale or the Hamptoms could only dream of.
I've never once in my life bragged about how much money I have (I've never had that much), or my good job (I'm currently unemployed)... so.... I think you might want to consult a mental health professional. Also, is responding to bigoted statements and personal attacks directed at you really more pathetic than butting in to a conversation to tell someone they need to get a life because they post comments on a website (via a comment you posted on a website)?
1) I literally saw a comment a couple of days ago saying how much money you have. (even look at your country profile - going to nearly every country in Europe? Not many people can do that)
2) What does a mental health professional have to do with me?
3) Clearly, you didn't understand what I said. Y o u a r g u e w i t h t e e n a g e r s o n a q u i z w e b s i t e
Stating how much money I have (not a lot) isn't the same thing as bragging about how much money I have. Are you referencing the comment I made years ago to someone saying that I was insane for going to work in Saudi Arabia and I said that it made good financial sense because I managed to save a lot of money there. I saved a hundred grand over the course of six years. That wasn't a brag. This is kind of small potatoes for where I'm from.
Traveling around I have met people who spend as much time traveling as I do for literally nothing. And others who started with about $1000 dollars in the bank and have been traveling for years. It's not that hard. Helps to have a good passport but I know some who have done it coming from 3rd world countries.
A mental health professional obviously has nothing to do with you. If they did you might be making more balanced comments, and perhaps be more self aware. But you're not.
Oh, my goodness. "not a lot"? What are you on about? Why does your profile say 61/196 countries visited and 34/50 states visited. NOT MANY people in the world can do that in one life so STOP lying.
"If they did you might be making more balanced comments, and perhaps be more self aware" do you really think I care about this? If I was self-aware I'd probably stop arguing with "deranged prunes" XD. But it seems I always get attracted to them which is kinda sad ;/
My profile says I've been to 61 countries because I have...... this isn't a brag about how much money I have. I personally have met people more well-traveled than myself who did it for free. I'm sorry that your intellectual disability prevents you from understanding this. I'm not arguing with you. You are ranting hysterically, about prunes (?), and I'm calmly replying with corrections to the falsehoods that, when asked, you cannot back up.
I do understand what you are saying, so there's no need to say that I have a disability. I mentioned prunes since you mentioned in another argument about deranged prunes. Or you might not remember that and have dementia? But, do you really expect me to believe that you have managed to get to 61 countries for free? No. Saying to a person you've been to 61 countries is literally saying you have alot of money. You're just a very easy person to argue with because you sound like two 10 year olds arguing.
A prude is not a prune. If you don't know what a word means maybe look it up next time. When you do, also look up the word "literally." The reason I seem easy to argue with to you is because you are too thick to understand you lost before I even wrote back.
Seattle far cleaner than Stockholm? I live in Vancouver and Seattle is a pig sty compared to Vancouver. I also lived in Stockholm, and I don't know of any war zones in Stockholm, but Seattle and Denver have plenty.
I hope you're just joking. The U.S. Dept of State currently has travel warnings to Germany and Denmark, and they should have one for Sweden as well. These once nice places are going down the toilet and we all know why.
And Wellington has far too many hill to be comfortable to live in. I could just be lazy, though... However, that Auckland house crisis thing is a serious issue. In June, Herne Bay (in Auckland) became New Zealand's first suburb to reach an average house price of NZD $2 million.
I'dont live in Berlin, but I have been there many times. And it's the worst big city I have ever visited and it's full of beggars and strange people. I was shocked when I noticed that it was on this list. If Berlin is on this list, Damascus could be on here as well.
The impression I got from this quiz is that it is useless to have a survey of most livable counties. People consider "livable' in different ways, and every city has got slums and mansions, like it or not.
Briefly looking through the comments, this quiz has the most unenlightened discussion I've seen on the site. Few commenters actually bothering to check the criteria for the list to start with ...
Um... There are no American cities here. I'm not saying the United States is better than everyone, because every country has its flaws and weaknesses. However, American cities need to be on here. I truly do believe our citizens are the happiest.
San Francisco is the highest American city on the list, which makes me think the entire list is probably flawed. The average 2-bedroom apartment in San Francisco rents for over $4000/month, making it completely unlivable for 80% of people.
I don't see how San Francisco could be the most "livable" American city when there are so many nicer ones all over the country. It's insanely expensive, property crime is off the charts, the streets are filthy. I used to visit there quite often but it's not as much fun anymore.
Given the caliber of individual who feel the urge to respond to some of my comments on this website I feel like Quizmaster's prohibition on ad hominem attacks is draconian, onerous, and unreasonable.
agreed, after i tried three of the top 10 most liveable cities that i knew for a fact were top 10, and 2 of them appeared outside, i ragequit cause this quiz is plain wrong!
It would be interesting to see new 2017 data. Violence and rape is out of control in many EU countries now, and I'm pretty sure all German cities will lose their place on this list. If it's not safe for women to go outside alone, I don't think it should qualify as a "livable city"
I spread out my media consumption so I can get a bigger picture of what's going on in the world. I do avoid blatant propaganda outlets like Huffington Post and CNN though. I stick to more fact-based reporting.
@TinklePork "Violence and rape are out of control in many EU countries now"?????
I don't know what news reports you have been reading but in all my time on Jetpunk, that is the biggest load of complete and utter BS I have ever heard. Europe isn't perfect, nowhere is, but your statement is just plain wrong.
Zurich more liveable than Bern? That‘s surprising! Bern is smaller, doesn‘t has aircraft noise, isn‘t as overcrowded is Zurich and everything is a bit less expensive. Proud to be a Bernese!
Same here. I don't see auckland as more livable than Wellington except perhaps the climate and some activities or sights, but in terms of most livable I would say Wellington is better than Auckland.
Having lived many years in both Wellington and Auckland, I would say... Wellington is more livable, because of better transport. However both are pretty good cities! And Auckland has nicer beaches and climate. But you can't beat Wellington on a good day! :-)
Nobody pays attention to Latin America, so we will never see cities like Montevideo, Buenos Aires or even a big brazilian city in these lists. Mostly Montevideo, which provides the europeans with a similar but not so strong climate and a much less chaotic lifestyle, with some cool and again, not so strong, cultural differences.
As far as I can see this is an "expat rating" - hence based on the living conditions for a (foreign) family. It's not about fun places to visit for a week or two. I had a brief look at Mercer's documentation. They weigh heavily factors such as air pollution, availability of public transport and affordable schools and health care. That's why you get a bunch of medium-sized German cities on the list, but not a single British one. In Britain, unlike Germany, you have to pay for tertiary education and you have to pay through the nose for public transport.
Now all of a sudden, Cologne/Düsseldorf isn't considered 1 agglomeration, like in all other jetpunk quizzes? I typed in Cologne and I see Düsseldorf standing between the answers... (I know they are separate cities but in jetpunk quizzes, they are normally considered 1 metropole)
For the purpose of the Mercer list, in some cases it makes more sense to count individual cities rather than whole metropolitan areas. At least one thing they get right.
Huh... I wasn't really expecting to see Vancouver here, this is coming from someone who lives there. Housing market is terrible, unless you happen to be a millionaire, and renting isn't even a great alternative because it costs an arm and a leg. But, I guess the fact that we're #5 on the list, and the highest Canadian city shows that we're at least doing something right?
Interesting quiz. Metropolis Magazine conducted a similar survey in 2017 - See my quiz: "10 Best Cities of the World to Live In". They concentrated on housing, transportation, sustainability, and culture. Three cities on their top-10 list are missing from this one completely, namely Helsinki, Oslo, and Portland OR.. Well, there are about a zillion ways to conduct a survey like these:))
I have been to lots of these cities and all of them are nice but I still don't understand why there are no Japanese cities on here. For me Tokyo will be the best city there is! Also I expected Seoul.
Never been to Tokyo or Seoul but from photos I assume that the possibilities for local recreation are just lower than, e.g., in Munich. I mean, the accumulated key criteria for this list are wealth, culture, and recreation/health. Wealth and culture are at a great level for most westernised metropoles, thus recreation is the deal-breaker for the top of the list. And in this category, IMHO a 10mio+ city can just not compete with smaller, but nevertheless wealthy cities.
Please be a bit more precise with your objection. Is it aiming on Tokyo/Seoul or the general conclusion? As said, I have never been in Tokyo/Seoul. I might be wrong on the possible level of recreation in those cities.
Yes you're totally wrong about that and I'm puzzled as to why you would even think to draw a conclusion based on photos. What photos? Tokyo and Seoul are two of the most vibrant cities I've ever visited or lived in with plenty of things to see and do. What entertainment do you think Munich has that Tokyo lacks? Oktoberfest? People in Seoul go out drinking all night, every night, if that's what you fancy. If anything these cities have much more to offer in terms of entertainment venues and options than your average European city does.
The Mercer rankings have 39 factors grouped into 10 categories. The 7th category is "Recreation" and includes "restaurants, theaters, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc." As for restaurants, Tokyo restaurants have 304 Michelin stars, blowing away the closest European city (Paris, with 134). Munich has fewer than 20. Tokyo and Seoul both have great, world class cinemas. Most European cities have nothing that compares.
First of all, I used "recreation" in a broader context, in particular with respect to "recreation in nature". You are right that Mercer does not list this a separate category but it is partially included in "4. Air pollution", "7. Sport and leisure", and proabably also in "7. (recreation) etc.". "Recreation in nature" highly correlates with the amount of trees you can find on a photo. Shinjuku Central Park in Tokyo or Hyde Park in London are nice for a short walk after your job but it is not recommended for week-end recreation like hiking tours, bike tours, relaxing at a lake (at least not for 5mio people simultaneously)...For many European cities on this list you can go to rural regions within less than one hour and often even without using a car. Again I highly expect that this is not possible in Tokyo.
Second, who cares about the number of Michelin restaurants? Most people on Earth will never visit even one of those restaurants! And talking about entertainment venues, who cares if there are 2000 or only 200 nice bars in the city? Further, e.g. the theatre/opera density of central Europa is unmatched. Tokyo, NYC, etc. are probably comparable with (small) Vienna, but not beyond.
Using Michelin stars in comparison of Tokyo and Paris doesn't really make any sense, Tokyo has what, 7 times the population of Paris? As for your other notes though, TheLastFish seems terribly misinformed. Seoul and Tokyo are world class cities in regards to recreation.
I should not further judge this until I have visited those cities. Nevertheless, I wonder if we talk from completely different things. Just to make it clear again, I talk about stuff like the amount of trees within a distance of 10km from the city center.
I wonder what will happen in future when the EU gets converted to the "United States of Europe". Propably everybody will then sloppily call its citizens "the Europeans", annoying the Swiss, the Russians, and maybe even the British and Northern Irish! :-D
And some specialists will explain us: "West Eurasia is a continent, Europe is a country. Zurich is Swiss."
Fish: they actually already do this. I get asked all the time at customs about how much time I've spent "in Europe"... by which they always mean the European Union... I'll start explaining that there are other parts of Europe not in the EU and not in the Schengen Area and their question is inherently stupid but I've learned it's better just to anticipate the fallacy.
Thing is the EU has been around less than 30 years. and referring to the EU as Europe creates confusion as there is a continent by the same name. The popular convention Ander refers to has been near universally understood since before any of us were born, annoying nobody until very recently. The only confusion in creates is feigned, as there is no continent called America. Calling the USA "America" should be as controversial as calling the United States of Mexico "Mexico"... but of course... it isn't. And we all know why though some of us pretend not to.
I confirm that this sloppy nomenclature is commonly convenient also for non-US-Americans (as I do as well). (Although at least in German it is more limited to the US-citizens and associated adjective only. The country is typically called "USA" or "Vereinigte Staaten".) Nevertheless, the sloppy use of this term does not mean it is correct. America is first of all a supercontinent such as Eurasia. I see three ways how to think on why US-citizen (and others) persist calling their country "America". 1) They just don't care/think this is indeed unambigous. 2) There is a deep unconsious (or consious) attitude towards a pan-American imperialism (as backed by the past history and present power). 3) There is just no convenient "euphonic" alternative. E.g., "US-Americans" would semantically imply that the "people" of the USA is just a subfaction of the "pan-American people", "literally" constraining the sovereignty of the USA.
America is not a continent to the large majority of people in the world. Your odd use of "America" to represent a supercontinent is not any more correct than the more common "North America" and "South America." Language is a tool to convey meaning. If a word is commonly used to mean something and commonly understood to mean that thing, then that word is an effective component of language. The ONLY reason that Americans, and the vast overwhelming majority of all humans on Earth, call America America is because that's what most people have been using that word to mean since the 19th century. It has zilch to do with imperialism. It's just convention. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that convention. The problems people have with it are manufactured and date back to... about 6 years ago.
The actual term "America" has been created in order to give the continent South America a name. Further, we learned in school that the vikings (re-)discovered "America" (Canada!) as well as that Colombus again re-discovered "America" (Bahamas!). THAT is the convention which all humans on Earth agree on since 500 years. The USA are virtually one of the last country in the Americas which has been considered to be a part of "America". Nevertheless, the majority of humans (including myself) may sloppily use this term not only for the continent but also for USA. But you will find hardly any person outside USA who denies that America is (also) a (super-)continent. At least nobody who visited history or geography lesson.
I've never found one who didn't recognize that America was a country and not a continent and I've worked as an educator on four continents and had conversations on this subject with people in each. (or... 2... I guess... if you only count "super continents")
A correspondent for the Irish Times offers some clever and snarky insight into Mercer's questionable metrics: "Closer examination confirms, of course, that Mercer has a particular purpose in mind. The chart has been compiled to 'help multinational companies and other employers fairly compensate employees when placing them on international assignments'. In other words, the survey is assessing cities in terms of how they suit people who drive Saabs and spend evenings in golf clubs. Such employers are required to hand over cash if the destination city is just a little bit too funky or a tad too much at home to cultural innovation. You don’t want hip-hop crews keeping you awake when you’re preparing for that conference call to Boggs & Baloney. The corporate avenger requires a quiet, bland environment that can be slipped into and slid out of as comfortably as he or she might annihilate a passing lame duck."
It makes sense to lump the two together in agglomeration quizzes. However, they are still distinct cities. Cologne as well as the cities from the Ruhr Area would likely rank significantly lower than Düsseldorf in any list that measures livability.
Interesting to see something as small as Luxembourg City on the list. It's not really much of a city, is it? Among cities that small, Salzburg seemed pretty livable to me.
Is this comment racist? Are we still pretending that this word has explicitly racist overtones because Donald Trump said it? even though nobody ever thought it did before
This feels so random, if one city is on here, why not the city a few kilometers away which is nearly the same in every way. I know in big countries like china there can be a lot of difference in quality of living per city even ones that are in the same area. But for for (western) europe, things are much closer together and not much difference.
For instance, if amsterdam is on here, why not the rest of the major cities in the country? (and major only because there is more transportation and entertainment there. Other standards of living is are generally the same throughout the country. The flip side of big cities is housing though, one of the criteria, it is very scarce in big cities and ludicrous prices, so that would take the scores down again_
I know this may sound biased given I'm from Melbourne and my family is from Vienna, but they are the top two most livable cities in the world, Vienna having overtaken Melbourne in 2018. Search up 'Most Livable City 2020.' First result.
Have the people that put Melbourne on this list ever lived there and experienced the weather? As I write this it's bitterly cold, pissing rain and windy as the bowels of Hell.
Not surprised at all by these results. Of course Canada and Europe top the list with the most liveable cities and of course America doesn't make the list at all. I mean how can you have a liveable city when you have no universal health care and are always worried about being shot?
This is one of the most arbitrary, silliest quizzes I think I've ever taken on Jetpunk. Not a single US or UK city, but you're gonna include Singapore. Guess no gay people who believe they're worthy of the right to marry were consulted for that one lol. Come on. Do better Jetpunk.
I would definitely consider living in Amsterdam. Cool city. I would put up with the terrible climate to try living there for a while. I would definitely pass on Berlin and Toronto. Of the cities that I have not visited on the list, I think I would like to try Vienna, Zurich, Geneva, Copenhagen, Sydney and Melbourne. Stockholm maybe if I got to live somewhere else at least 8 months out of the year. The rest... no interest in at all.
And, for me personally, I can think of at least several hundred cities I would prefer to live in over any of these. Mostly in East and SE Asia, Latin America, and the United States. Europe and Canada are very overrated. I hear good things about Australia but I've never been there before so can't comment.
In general my opinion of these places, versus my expectations prior to visiting them, has been revised down.
I would like to reiterate the paramount importance of climate. So many of these German and Scandinavian cities are dark, dreary, rainy, and frigidly cold- not what I would call livable. I was in most of them in the summer and they were still unpleasant.
I'd also like to double down on the cost of living thing. It makes a huge huge difference. When it costs $95 for a bunk bed in a hostel dormitory in Zurich, and $30 for a high-rise condo on the beach in Odessa with floor-to-ceiling windows overlooking the Black Sea (I've stayed in both)... this makes a difference in your quality of life. People who can afford to live comfortably some place like Albania or the Philippines would literally be bums if they were transported to Switzerland.
I know my taste in climate isn't equal to everyone's. Just speaking to my own preferences.
I like bright skies (but can thoroughly enjoy storms) but I am not one of those that feels like the hotter the better. 17degrees is more than more enough 20 is fine too but over 25 I get seriously ill and even in the shade is unpleasant, in the sun is not even an option. (and then you see people still with long pants and sweaters, and I think what?? I am totally incapacitated)>
Atm it is about 12 degrees and very very sunny, lovely ! it is not shorts and tshirt weather anymore, but it is really nice. And the sun is still very hot your face still burns. (I hate sunless and drizzling weather though, if it is dark, let it pour and storm and thunder!)
Brief impressions of each:
1. Vienna: dreary weather. Beautiful downtown. Nice architecture. Nice open public spaces. Otherwise a bit dull. Wouldn't want to live here.
2. Munich: amazing food. Attractive women. Very expensive by German standards. Germans in general though are uptight. Might consider living here briefly.
3. Copenhagen: Scandinavia is so overrated but this place is alright-ish. Too expensive but cheaper than further north. Most absurd bridge toll I've ever seen in my life. Don't think I'd live here.
4. Amsterdam: too expensive and cold but as stated previously still one of the places I like most in Europe. Would live here for a while.
5. Berlin: reasonably cheap for Western Europe. Less boring than most of these cities. A bit dreary. Maybe
7. Hamburg: a bit sleazy, and if you're into that sort of sleaze... you won't get your money's worth here. Plenty of scams and rip-offs. But much cheaper than nearby Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Some parts of downtown are okay. Met some surprisingly friendly people, for Germans. But wouldn't want to live here.
8. Stockholm: I thought I would like it. Was disappointed. Nice, but.. Very anti-septic. Very dull. Don't really care for the culture overall- some good some bad. Hate how car-hostile downtown area is. Insanely expensive, though not as bad as Norway. People are a bit stand-offish. Good food. Well stocked groceries. Some nice museums. Wouldn't want to live here though, even in the summer. Can't imagine how awful it would be in the winter.
I've never been to Spain. Never been to Australia. Never been to Costa Rica. You can see my travel map in my profile. I have a feeling I'd like some of those places.
That said, with the exception of Barcelona and Madrid (both great to visit) Spanish cities are wonderful places if you can find a job.
@kalbahamut
dbyeti: my car is an extension of myself.
#1 someone who is retired or semi-retired and living off of savings.
#2 someone who works from their laptop making the same wages and doing the same work regardless of where they sleep at night.
#3 someone whose experience or skill set allows them to find good well-paying jobs virtually anywhere, even in "poor" countries where the locals might have depressed wages.
Then also consider the fact that in most of these "affluent" countries, getting work can be considerably more difficult. Economies of these countries tend to be more protectionist when it comes to jobs and their workforce. There is often a lot of bureaucratic red tape involved in getting a work visa. You may have to work illegally if you want to work at all, and likely accept lower wages.
Taxes in these countries are typically substantially lower, as well.
In summation, no, I'm not confused at all. I'm definitely thinking about places I would like to live, not just visit.
Personally I love the opportunities a city has, there is allways something you can do, a lot of courses you can take, and it usually matters less how you look. But to have to life there everyday is probably not for me. A car unfriendly center sounds great, tht actually sounds like a big plus. I need my nature and my quiet (though not in the best street for quiet, some very loud people unfortunately, but trafficwise it is quiet and not polluted either). Places like canada and scandinavia sound great to me (but their big cities still not too much).
Also, Scandinavia might be a bit cold and dark in the winter but we rarely have any heat waves where the temperatures climb over +30C for long periods of time (well, it didn't even reach 25C once over here last year), no earthquakes, tornadoes, extreme flooding, extreme cold/snowstorms, drought etc. Clean water and air for all and so forth.
Helen: you've proven time and again you are not worth responding to. I'm only nasty to those who go out of their way to deserve it. You've left plenty of undeserved nasty comments on my own quizzes.
Meanwhile in the real world, some of my European friends who have actually visited the United States tell me they're amazed they can go out walking in the city and get back home and the bottoms of their shoes are still clean. I lived there 30 years and never once witnessed a violent crime take place. I received so much in federal and state financial aid during college I made a profit. and public transport in many cities is perfectly fine.
I don't especially want to live in the US, but seriously, you people are hilarious.
So not getting to the top of the table doesn't imply that Mercer thinks that people getting shot daily at Fisherman Wharf. No need to get emotional here.
Most people who move to the US come from countries that are less well-off. Is the US more livable to them than the country they left behind? Yes. Is it more livable than a big number of European countries/Australia/Canada/etc.? Nope.
I've had two of my friends visit the US before (one of them was on the west coast for 2 weeks, the other on the east coast for a whole month - she stayed at a friend's place). While both liked their time in America just fine, they both said they would never want to live there, for different reasons each.
No UK cities and I'm not surprised, doesn't stop people wanting to live here! It is still a great country, survey or not.
2) What does a mental health professional have to do with me?
3) Clearly, you didn't understand what I said. Y o u a r g u e w i t h t e e n a g e r s o n a q u i z w e b s i t e
Traveling around I have met people who spend as much time traveling as I do for literally nothing. And others who started with about $1000 dollars in the bank and have been traveling for years. It's not that hard. Helps to have a good passport but I know some who have done it coming from 3rd world countries.
A mental health professional obviously has nothing to do with you. If they did you might be making more balanced comments, and perhaps be more self aware. But you're not.
"If they did you might be making more balanced comments, and perhaps be more self aware" do you really think I care about this? If I was self-aware I'd probably stop arguing with "deranged prunes" XD. But it seems I always get attracted to them which is kinda sad ;/
Speaking as someone regularly travelling all over Europe and having male and female friends living in many places in Germany and elsewhere ...
I don't know what news reports you have been reading but in all my time on Jetpunk, that is the biggest load of complete and utter BS I have ever heard. Europe isn't perfect, nowhere is, but your statement is just plain wrong.
The Mercer rankings have 39 factors grouped into 10 categories. The 7th category is "Recreation" and includes "restaurants, theaters, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc." As for restaurants, Tokyo restaurants have 304 Michelin stars, blowing away the closest European city (Paris, with 134). Munich has fewer than 20. Tokyo and Seoul both have great, world class cinemas. Most European cities have nothing that compares.
And some specialists will explain us: "West Eurasia is a continent, Europe is a country. Zurich is Swiss."
Thing is the EU has been around less than 30 years. and referring to the EU as Europe creates confusion as there is a continent by the same name. The popular convention Ander refers to has been near universally understood since before any of us were born, annoying nobody until very recently. The only confusion in creates is feigned, as there is no continent called America. Calling the USA "America" should be as controversial as calling the United States of Mexico "Mexico"... but of course... it isn't. And we all know why though some of us pretend not to.
Although can Cologne be counted for Dusseldorf as they are pretty much two in one?
For instance, if amsterdam is on here, why not the rest of the major cities in the country? (and major only because there is more transportation and entertainment there. Other standards of living is are generally the same throughout the country. The flip side of big cities is housing though, one of the criteria, it is very scarce in big cities and ludicrous prices, so that would take the scores down again_
Not lately haha