Yep, totally agree. I love baseball. I love the history of the game. I can tell you who won or lost every World Series ever played and know something about virtually every series. I begged my dad to let me stay up for one more AB by Hank Aaron in '74 when he broke Ruth's record, and for the only time in my life, cheered for a Yankee when I saw Derek Jeter eclipse 3,000 hits live & in-person. But I have never (and will never) watched the "highlight" of Bonds hitting the HR to break Aaron's HR record.
Aaron is a beloved figure in every baseball town in the country, and is one of the nicest people you could ever meet. Bonds has been nothing but an arrogant, cheating jerk who treated people around him like crap. I love that he cost the Pirates a WS trip back in '91 by flipping Van Slyke off instead of listening to him and moving in a few steps before Bream scored the winning run for Atlanta. What a loser.
So do you consider Ruth no. 2 on the home run list. He was known to use testosterone from animal testicles, Aaron used amphetamines. So actually the top 3 should not be considered the home run kings if you leave out bonds. The fact is steroids was not the first performance enhancing drug in baseball and been used since at least 1889 in baseball.
Yup, Bonds was a jerk. And he and others were guilty of cheating. And MLB more or less loved every minute of it, as the cascade of long balls helped avaricious owners' profits recover from the damage those owners had themselves caused just a few years before.
I get it about the use of steroids, but you all forget that performance enhancing drugs have been used in baseball since at least 1889 when they used testosterone from animal testicles. Babe Ruth also was known to use that performance enhancing drug as well. So to leave out steroids players but admire and forgive the many in the Hall of Fame or in the record books is hypocritical.
And Ruth took testosterone from animal testicles, Aaron took amphetamines which were the performance enhancing solutions during their times in baseball. The fact is baseball has had many Hall of Famers and record holders that use performance enhancing drugs. Not sure why steroids is such a big deal when this is not a new concept. The first known usage of performance enhancing drugs was 1889 and did not stop the entire time baseball has been around.
Oh he also took animal testosterone which was the performance enhancing drug of the time, Aaron took amphetamines which was the drug of his time. The fact is performance drugs has been a staple of baseball since 1889 at least which is the first known case made to the public.
Griffey Jr and Tome were both clean for sure, so was Frank Thomas. all the rest.. took roids and lots of them. Lois Gonz
alez of the DBacks started hitting singles and double after hitting over 50 hrs suddenly yeah he wasn't juiced at all. not sure about others or not.. but most were dirty.
@bwowls, I am absolutely sure Frank Thomas never took steroids...he was always enormous. An enormous, respectable dude. Thome, it's possible, but I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt
The Big Hurt was a football player at Auburn. I met him when he was a rookie in 1990, and he was huge. His mother also owned a bar in Chicago, and she's pretty big too. No need for roids there.
You are delusional. They all took steroids in that era, pitchers too. You don't need to be jacked. It is about recovery time. They were all juicing, we all knew it, we all enjoyed it, and now we are all so shocked and mad, give me a break.
Walacama, Griffey's career perfectly resembled that of a clean player. He was clearly at his best during his prime years in Seattle, went to Cincinnati and got progressively worse/more injury prone as he got older. His recovery timeline was longer than the Nile. I'm 100% confident that he played his entire career clean. So no, they were not all juicing.
The problem is that it is impossible to be 100% sure. I believe Ortiz had a totally clean career, and I sincerely hope he did. Can I be sure, no. Did he juice, probably at some point. The hall of fame voters need to get over it and put these guys in - the ones that got caught. Or at least put them in and give them an asterisk.
It is known by now that Ortiz juiced. And it's weird to say in successive comments that "they all took steroids" and then "the problem is it is impossible to be 100% sure." You have no idea what Jim Thome was or wasn't taking. What we *do* know is that the era and the issue have been thoroughly examined by now, by journalists, baseball historians, and the Mitchell Report investigation. Thome, Thomas, and Griffey were never mentioned anywhere near any of those investigations. Sure, it's possible they were just really good at hiding it, but given that they were never mentioned in that context and that their career paths do not suggest steroid use, it's wrong to lump them in with proven cheaters.
Ortiz failed a drug test in 2003. The results were supposed to be kept confidential, but the fact that they weren't doesn't mean he didn't fail the test. In Minnesota (1997-2002) he averaged approx. 25 ABs per HR. Thereafter, in Boston, and for the rest of his career, he averaged approx. 15 ABs per HR. Yep, nothing suspicious about that from a guy who failed a drug test.[/sarcasm]
And as much as I liked Griffey, Jr. (kind of ambivalent about Thome), I would feel a whole lot better about him being clean "for sure" if he was as outspoken against PEDs as Thomas.
Rafael Palmeiro was always outspoken against the use of steroids until he got caught using them. I thought that was too bad, as he had quietly put together a very good career with HOF numbers.
I'm sure Ortiz juiced, but I don't think his transformation after leaving the Twins is really that probative of anything. He averaged over 35 bombs per season in his final three seasons - 2014, 2015, and 2016 - all after testing became legit, comprehensive, and widespread - and as a relatively old dude, at that. Could be wrong, maybe he was just incredibly lucky in those twilight seasons and juiced but masked well or avoided the randos.
The shame of Bonds using PEDs isn't just the doing of it, but he didn't need it. His last clean year is supposed to have been 1998 and his numbers from '98 are pretty much in line with his career up til then.
We'll never know how he would have done after '98 without PEDs.
McGwire did use steroids...he admitted as much, saying he was using them as early as during his Bash Brothers era with Jose Canseco and the late 1980s Athletics.
I always find Jim Thome so interesting. The guy was quietly like the fifth-best slugger in baseball...every single year for two decades. You could count on him for 30 home runs and 100 RBIs every season. He never got the attention of so many other hitters, yet he's one of only five people to hit 600 home runs without being tied to steroids, with Griffey, Aaron, Mays, and Ruth. Not bad company.
He's also famously cited by many baseball players as the nicest guy to ever play the game, which is another accolade for which he doesn't get nearly enough attention.
just the way he wanted it. He was cool and a fan favorite for many years anywhere he played. (for me I loved Griffey Jr, and as a Reds fan it was awesome and disappointed at the same time when he played for the Reds. I saw his conference when he retired, it was a sad day in baseball. when he and Tome both retired it was sad for a lot of people but I wish them all the best.
Thome is definitely Hall of Fame worthy, but he isn't an inner circle great. He dominated the counting stats, but he was a minus defender at an easy position (1B). And, while nobody wants to acknowledge it, it wasn't just steroids that created the steroids era. It was also small ballparks and small strike zones. His career WAR is similar to players like Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell, who could never touch his power numbers.
I missed five. No excuse. Maybe Shefield because he moved around so much. It was hard to track him.
I missed MAYS!! For God's sake, I probably saw him hit 25 or 30, almost all at Seals Stadium and Candlestick Park in SF, but also at Riverfront in Cincinnatti, Veterans' Stadium in Philly, Wrigley in Chicago and maybe Busch in St. Louis.
Aah, the good ole days, when you could pop a greenie, slap a single to the left and carry on, because "everyone else did it". PEDs have been around, in some form, since who knows when. Guys have always cheated to get an edge, since the very beginning of the history of the game, and here we're talking about hitters, don't even get me started on pitchers. This doesn't mean that everyone did it, but lots of the most respected figures did, and lots of those now are in the HOF. What I hate of Bonds is that he was already a HOFer before he took the Cream. He was probably going to be one of the best lef fielders of all time regardless, but he wanted to be The One and lost everything he had achieved thanks to skill and hard work. Same for Sheff, who was not on Bonds level, but not far behind.
You might as well just put one next to every name on here. At least 20 of these guys have admitted to using, failed a test, or have been credibly accused.
Strawberry was on pace through the first half of career, and then drugs buried him. Canseco was close to 500, and would have made it if he didn't miss several large chunks of seasons with injuries. Health is a big part of this list. If Giancarlo Stanton doesn't make it, it will only be because he has had so much trouble staying healthy. He's already over 400 and I think he's only like 34, so he still has a pretty good shot if he can stay on the field.
Aaron is a beloved figure in every baseball town in the country, and is one of the nicest people you could ever meet. Bonds has been nothing but an arrogant, cheating jerk who treated people around him like crap. I love that he cost the Pirates a WS trip back in '91 by flipping Van Slyke off instead of listening to him and moving in a few steps before Bream scored the winning run for Atlanta. What a loser.
The only clean guys from that era are Griffey, Thome, and Thomas.
Shef?
alez of the DBacks started hitting singles and double after hitting over 50 hrs suddenly yeah he wasn't juiced at all. not sure about others or not.. but most were dirty.
And as much as I liked Griffey, Jr. (kind of ambivalent about Thome), I would feel a whole lot better about him being clean "for sure" if he was as outspoken against PEDs as Thomas.
We'll never know how he would have done after '98 without PEDs.
I missed MAYS!! For God's sake, I probably saw him hit 25 or 30, almost all at Seals Stadium and Candlestick Park in SF, but also at Riverfront in Cincinnatti, Veterans' Stadium in Philly, Wrigley in Chicago and maybe Busch in St. Louis.