Brian from Family Guy said it best -- ..."it was a bunch of Saudi Arabians, Lebanese and Egyptians financed by a Saudi Arabian guy living in Afghanistan and sheltered by Pakistanis"... No wonder we didn't know who to invade
Right or wrong, the decision to invade Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. The US invaded Iraq because of intelligence that indicated the movement of weapons of mass destruction. I don't remember it ever being attributed to 9-11.
President Bush and members of his administration made dozens of false public remarks about ties between the Iraq regime and Al-Queda. WMDs were the biggest point, sure, but they knew to harness public sentiment after 9/11. A 2003 WaPo poll found that 69% of Americans believed that Hussein was directly involved in the attacks.
Wrong - the decision to invade Iraq had everything to do with 9-11. In 2006, more than 33% of Americans believed the US government was directly involved in the events of that day. Considering that after 9-11, it had a very good reason - and the support of most American citizens, which it didn't have before - to invade Iraq to fight terrorism, that notion would seem to make a lot of sense.
Yanni that's just straight up wrong. Anyone who was alive in 2001 and has a decent memory, or anyone who bothered to do any research, could easily see that the Bush administration and its allies in conservative media were trying to build the case to invade Iraq BEFORE 9/11 happened. If anything, 9/11 delayed the invasion of Iraq. AFER 9/11 these same actors used the tragedy (tacked on to their original rationale after the fact) to try and build more support for the invasion. Bush and his media allies worked hard to build popular support for an Iraq invasion (and, after the fact, to confuse people into thinking Hussein and 9/11 were somehow connected) - so how can you say that their decision to invade had something to do with popular opinion? Can't make sense of a lot of what you're saying but if you are implying that there's good reason to think the US government was involved in planning or executing 9/11, that's idiotic.
From what I've heard, the Bush administration - as you rightly said - had been trying to invade Iraq before 9-11. However, with the loss of lives of American soldiers during the 1991 Gulf War still in people's minds, the support for another such mission in the Middle East didn't have the public support the US government would have liked. Then the "terrorist attacks" happened. The public support for invading Iraq after that? I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was something close to 100% ("Let's show those f***ing terrorists what we're made of!"). Whether Hussein was directly involved in the events is questionable indeed, but Bush had marked Iraq as one of the countries of the "Axis of Evil", which sponsored terrorism. And people probably didn't think twice about whether specifically taking on Iraq was justified.
Why are you putting "terrorist attacks" in quotation marks? What else would they be? And yes support for invading Afghanistan after 9/11 (which Bush didn't even want to do) was extremely high, while support for invading Iraq was probably higher than before (but still quite far from universal). However, without the distraction of 9/11 and Afghanistan, Bush would have continued building the case for taking out Saddam for his flaunting of UN resolutions and non-existent WMDs, and probably invaded sooner. After all, Iraq had precisely zero to do with 9/11. (one of the really dumb things among many dumb things in regards to the theories nonsense that 9/11 was staged to gin up support for invading Iraq: if it was staged, then why couldn't these masterminds have faked a plot that actually involved Iraq? Pretty big oversight. Makes zero sense) Anyway many people were against the Iraq invasion so "probably didn't think twice?" No. That's not accurate.
6 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 126 Democrats voted against the resolution in the House of Representatives. It passed with a little more than 2/3 of the votes.
compare this to the Senate vote for use of force in Afghanistan... which was unanimous. Not kidding. 98 yeas. 0 nays. 2 abstentions. Such a thing sounds impossible in today's political climate. Afghanistan was also signed off on by NATO and the UN. I've heard people call it an illegitimate or illegal war but actually it was probably the most "legitimate" and "legal" war in history if there is truly such a thing.
Iraq, on the other hand, was controversial even within the US, and extremely controversial internationally.
It wasn't really that confusing. It was AlQaeda - a terrorist organization run by Osama bin Laden who was, at the time, being hosted by the Taleban in Afghanistan. Invading Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan (or Iraq, for that matter) would have made no sense.
You seriously just wrote a 3-letter abbreviation that does work even though it's not the full answer and you want to write a roundabout lengthier name. Why?
Because, at least in New York, everyone called them the Twin Towers. Nobody ever said "I'm going to the World Trade Center." I'm a native New Yorker, and my first thought was "Twin Towers."
I was working in NYC several blocks uptown from the Towers on 9/11. The horror when each building collapsed, knowing that you were watching hundreds or thousands of people lose their lives before your eyes is indescribable. The raw human emotion just in our cafeteria was surreal. Half the people there just wanted to cry. And the other half wanted to go out and kill somebody. It was like nothing I've ever seen before in my life.
Leader of that group - I could not come up with Bin Laden. I'd like to think that's not due to my faulty memory, but that it's a testament to evil being wiped out. No one wants to remember that name.
Should be called Official Narrative™ Memorandum Quiz. Kudos to General Wesley Clark for having the honesty to speak out. It's hard to believe how many folks faithfully follow the tangled mess of nonsense and illogic.
Kal asks amgine to explain his position. amgine goes full internet with a series of irrelevant insults and weird platitudes about "talking heads." Really making his case. 9/11 was a terrorist plot. Get over it.
I think he is referring to Clark revealing that generals and PNAC members already had massive plans laid out, just looking for a "Pearl harbor" event to get the American public foaming at the mouth. It would take an entire book to go through all the evidence that this was an inside job, or at least allowed to unfold on our soil, but there is a ton of it. More keeps being slowly leaked out, even now. The official story has more holes than a fishing net. The elites that run the world are more evil than most can imagine.
Well done to whomever contributed to having my response deleted. Pat yourself on your pathetic, censorious, puerile head. I guess Mr Kalbahamut is a protected species on this platform and can't be made to look bad. When you pull out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar......
Yeah, because kalbahamut's NEVER had any of his comments deleted on this website before. Never. In the history of ever. It's unfair, really.
By the way, nice use of the Game of Thrones quote that I see whenever something on the Internet gets censored or deleted. It doesn't make you look predictable at all.
Sorry I didn't get to see your response. But I'm sure I got totally owned. Because, let's face it, I am a mindless ignorant shill. I would have to be to believe this story:
A group of terrorists hijacked some planes, as has been done many times before, to attack the WTC in New York, as they had several times before
was less messy or logical than this story:
george bush and his buddies in the illuminati the queen of england and the mossad and the rest of the time-traveling interdimensional lizard people who make up the elders of zion decided to stage the most elaborate and complicated false flag operation in human history so they got thousands of people and hundreds of intelligence and government agencies and media outlets across hundreds of countries to all cooperate and get in on the plot which involved blaming some fake terrorist attacks on a Saudi guy in Afghanistan which logically would make everyone want to invade Iraq...
... but it would have been way too simple just to actually use bombs or something so of course they had to hire all the passengers on 4 random flights from diverse backgrounds and get them to agree to become crisis actors so their planes could take off and then land in Atlantis or the Bermuda Triangle or something where they would be offloaded never seeing their families again meanwhile the orbital mind control satellites in geosyncronous orbit over New York (but not really because the world is flat obviously) had to be retrofitted with alien future tech allowing them to project super realistic jumbo jet holograms down to the city where people would see and film them from multiple angles but they only looked like jets crashing into buildings really it was drones firing missiles or something i don't know who cares and then naturally a bunch of demolition charges went off that construction crews must have been working round the clock for weeks to install but nobody noticed them...
... and yadda yadda yadda Bill Gates put a microchip in my salsa.
Going to have to cut that one short because I know it goes on. But it's almost too simple, isn't it! So elegant and obvious when you think about it. Now that I'm typing it all out it just is so clear and makes such perfect sense. Man do I have egg on my face for ever doubting. Sincerest apologies.
Yeah, but it wouldn't really need to be nearly as elaborate as what you mention, quite humorously. Lol. All they really had to do was allow the Saudis to operate or Mossad, perhaps in conjunction with a few people here, who are compartmentalized, or on their own, to make this happen. Most people don't have the platform or power to do anything about this or even be aware of all the moving parts. This is why Bush first named Henry Kissinger to head the 9/11 commission, but then he had to be removed, for conflicts of interest. Everyone involved in this had major conflicts of interest, and the elite's entire purpose is to grow big govt and use fear and endless wars on "fill inblank" to take all of your rights and money. Kissinger as head of the team and Cheney's Halliburton are just a couple red alerts out of a million. I could go on all day. However, I respect Kalbahamut and don't wish to come across as hateful. I just think our citizens deserve to know more and be led by patriots.
1. there is zero credible evidence of what you allege taking place.
2. even if there were... that's still a more convoluted story than the one where Al Qaeda attacked the US for the reasons they had publicly stated that they wanted to. And it raises way more questions than it answers.
3. I'm sure you could go on all day. And I could refute every point you brought up for just as long. I'm not well-versed in every conspiracy theory out there, but this one I've read about a ton, and it's all bullpoop... but... yeah... there's tons of it to sort through so I don't doubt that you could go on for a while.
It is entirely reasonable to question the official line - the whole thing seemed to me a piece of black shock-theatre, designed to elicit precisely that response of fear, anger and confusion. This applied to the American government and population alike.
Somebody’s gotta get invaded after that regardless if they had nothing to do with it. I’m sorry Americans, it might not be your fault, but your country is the most destabilising regime in the world, and surrendered the moral high ground shortly after WW2…
It's not reasonable to think that George W. Bush murdered 3,000 of his own citizens, decimated the biggest city in his country, crippled the economy for a year, forced the country to redirect massive resources toward internal security and vigilance, and struck absolute and lasting terror into the hearts of everyone living within 30 miles of a city just so he could get popular support for a war he could have probably started without popular support. I hated Bush as a president, but he's not Hitler. And more importantly, all the "evidence" adduced in favor of the conspiracy is hokum. It's fifth-hand internet posts and egregious misstatements of science and fact. And surely if Bush were going to manufacture a crisis to garner support, he could have come up with something less drastic than the worst act of terrorism in history. Seems a little over the top.
9 and 11 are significant occult numbers and in gematria. The elites love to imprint terrible incidents on the public hive mind conscience. It instilled great fear and low vibes.
... or the people who make up stories about "the elites" have to come up with BS rationale for things they allegedly do because otherwise the stories make no sense. There is no evidence for any of this.
Asking questions is reasonable. After those questions have been asked, and answered, and you refuse to accept those answers for no good reason or, worse, insist on believing in debunked nonsense alternative theories that make no sense whatsoever and have no real evidence backing them up, that's not reasonable.
The terrorist attacks of 9/11 obviously were meant to inspire fear, anger, and confusion... that's what terrorist attacks do. But Osama bin Laden believed that the US was a paper tiger. His goal was to reduce or eliminate US military presence in the Middle East. He did not get what he wanted.
To your second point: actually the opposite is true. Look up the Pax Americana. I mean about being destabilizing. As far as the moral high ground goes... that's a different argument. I'd say that the US edged out the USSR during the Cold War, and after, there was no such thing as the moral high ground because there was only one superpower in the world. Nothing to compare to
Another interesting point is that 94% of the world's heroin continued to flow out of Afghanistan for the 2 decades they were under coalition forces. Isn't that strange??? It almost seems like the govt and media aren't very nice people, nor the CIA and the web of networks that aid them.
Apparently not. Apparently they don't really care about drugs killing people all over the world-- just arresting some dude on a street corner for possessing them, but we know this story well, going back to the Rothschilds of the East (Sassoons) and the Opium Wars, where the elites literally pushed drugs into China/India and made a fortune. Nothing is what it seems. IRAN CONTRA, etc. Their God is Gold, Oil, Opium, Drugs, and destruction.
The world is under attack from the illuminated cabal, elites, and central bankers. I can be much more specific, but keep getting deleted. The ultimate goal is transhumanism, chipping and controlling the slave population, and forcing everyone into their debt system, which took over with the unconstitutional Fed Reserve in 1913. You don't need stories about aliens, lizards, or flat earth to be scary. The reality and elites coming for your freedom and American Constitution are already scary enough, and factual. Most people don't want to see this, or never hear about any of it in an engaging way. It is just presented as "David Icke talks of lizards and Trumpers believe in Q anon", which deflects from the other valid information that is in plain site and history books.
All of what you said is every bit as much a bunch of discredited nonsense as David Icke's tin foil hats protected us from the orbital mind control lasers. We know where these theories came from, and what they are based on; they are all bunk.
Also the Q Anon people and the Flat Earthers and those worried about the lizard people have exactly as much "evidence" as you do... some of them probably disregard some of the things you believe in... believing that the Illuminati controls the world isn't the credible, reasonable version of this. It's all complete nonsense. There is absolutely no reason to believe that 9/11 was an inside job or even that it was allowed to happen. None. Just like there's no reason to believe that Queen Elizabeth is a komodo dragon in a dress. Granted, a larger percentage of lay people would think the 2nd thing more preposterous than the 1st thing, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the same amount of evidence behind them.
Yeah, and the 1913 Fed Reserve takeover of our money and income taxes, while they print it into oblivion and leave the gold standard for the petrodollar...that was all imagined too I guess? And the COVID lockdowns and concentration of all speech, money, and rights from the lower levels to the 1% is all imaginary too, I suppose? While Fauci funded it, and Gates talks of depopulation and eating bugs, People using occult and masonic symbols in all of the pop music and movies is also by chance. The World Economic Forum saying "You will own nothing and be happy? UN Agenda 2030 and 21, the climate change hysteria, the Vatican's reptile room and pagan occult symbols, the Rothschild hexagram on the flag of Israel, which is relating to Black Sun Saturn worship, and not Jewish in any way. This is found all over the world in older cultures, etc. Nope, nothing to see. People like George Soros and the central bankers, big pharma, and Bill Gates have your best interest at heart, I am sure.
Boy howdy, if only everyone in the world had your critical thinking skills. I had just locked myself in my basement when LeBron James broke into my house and stole my guns and my wife and my Pop-Tarts and then took his UFO from Denver International Airport up to his big space mansion with his royal consorts, John Paul II and Jimmy Hoffa. Now he's infecting the ice caps with COVID to make us think they're melting so that we all go crazy and kill ourselves so that he can finally fulfill his dream of being Mr. Magical Man from Happy-Land, in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane. Sorry, there's not a lot of air in here.
I guess you're right. I just thought that this was about any old September 11 attack that immediately took about 3,000 innocent lives - no matter whether it was planned by the at Front Royal, Virginia with the Chilean military and led to a coup by Augusto Pinochet, who ruled in a brutal fashion for sixteen years, or if it was planned by Saudis and Egyptians and led to twenty years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq. I keep forgetting that some people's lives are worth more than others.
You said that before, too, and it's as asinine now as it was then. Don't feel like breaking down all the many ways this comment is asinine, again, and can't find where I did so originally. But rest assured it's nonsense. Comparing these two events is beyond moronic.
The only person here attempting to minimize the loss of anyone's lives is you. and we all understand why. This is a quiz about one event and tragedy; you, because you don't care about the people who died in that due to political and personal bias, are trying to divert attention away to a different event and tragedy. Nobody said that the Chilean coup didn't matter - but it has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001 - and implying that it was planned in Virginia makes you sound as daft as those who believe the Mossad destroyed the WTC.
I get your point but consider how effective a tool it can be in extracting information. I bet a lot less crucial information would have been known during the war on terror if they had never used torture.
It's a little surreal to think about that I was born a little more than a week after one of the most momentous events in American history. Despite the shocking, horrible nature of this tragedy, it demonstrated the bravery, willpower, and altruism that so many people possess, from the courageous actions of the passengers who fought for control of the hijacked plane in Pennsylvania to the selfless rescue and relief operations conducted by first responders in New York City
It's a little surreal to me to think that there are 20 year olds today born after this event, and the enormous cultural shift that it represented. I remember when I was in 5th grade, and it came on the news one night that American forces had started bombing Iraq (in 1991, the first Gulf War) - I was numb. It seemed surreal and scary. I was born in 1979, after Vietnam, and in my lifetime there hadn't really been any major conflict involving the US. There were some minor skirmishes, a couple bombings, some police actions, but nothing that felt even close to an actual hot war. Closest to that was Grenada and Panama. The Gulf War felt like a much bigger deal. And I didn't like the feeling. Even though I wasn't directly involved just knowing what was going on and following it on the nightly news broadcasts - felt awful. I wanted the war to end as soon as possible.
Then I think of my nephews, who never knew anything BUT war, and am saddened by this.
Part of the scariness may have been growing up toward the end of the Cold War - where large scale skirmishes and proxy-wars between the US and USSR like Korea and Vietnam were becoming less common, and we weren't all made to hide under our desks during nuclear attack drills like my mother's generation was - but when nonetheless we understood well the extreme danger that could come from all-out-war with the Soviets and it felt like something that ought to be avoided at all costs.
Perhaps this was one of the silver linings of the cold war. I don't think the present generation has potential global annihilation on their minds the way mine or my parents' did. Or if they do, it's more about climate change than World War 3. It's a shame human lives and memory are so short.
Yeah, I was born in 2001 too, but a few months before the attacks. I definitely feel like 9/11 kinda defines our generation, even if we can't remember it. My family lived in New York at the time, and my dad worked at Metropolitan Hospital in Manhattan. Thankfully, the hospital is located uptown, pretty far from Ground Zero, so he, and the rest of my family, was fine. There were people we knew who were affected by it though, most notably one of my sister's friends, whose father was a firefighter who died during a rescue mission.
Beyond the immediate impact, my generation has grown up with mass surveillance, terrorism, war, and Islamophobia/anti-immigrant sentiment as the norm. Even though these are all terrible, I think to a certain extent we've normalized it and accepted a new order that prioritizes security. I'm guessing the COVID pandemic will have a similar impact on today's kids.
A better definition of Western Civilization includes Islamic civilization, which originated in roughly the same area and is inextricably linked to Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, etc. It split off like the Latin/Greek schism, or the Protestant Reformation, but still connected and part of the same tradition and history.
I bet many of those people who cheered didn't feel so happy when they or their family members were killed in drone strikes or missile attacks later on. Karma is stone cold.
I love how one of my best comments about numerous inconsistencies in the official story just vanished up here. Other posters said the same. I thought you guys were smart and liked personal liberty. Nothing awful or hateful was posted; just facts and opinions that challenge the narrative. I guess that ruffled some feathers? I hope the site doesn't become like all the other censored platforms. Lol.
Excellent point, it seems the builders were quite shoddy here. Either that or it was hit by an invisible plane. Probably the one that crashed elsewhere, but those damn thermite charges had already been placed…
Or am I missing something?
Kal, you’re a smart guy (or gal) but your position requires a certain amount of faith. My stance is more agnostic - I KNOW that I don’t know all, or even very much of the truth about high politics and international power struggles. Belief in anything leads to the cessation of enquiry, after all, why ask questions when you already KNOW the answer?
I’m not Bozonet, I’m just not completely satisfied with the official line. Do you believe that governments never lie and cover up for their own ends? Can you really not see the advantage of that course of events to a whole bunch of arms-manufacturing arseholes who think war is fine and dandy, and nicely profitable to boot? I’ve hardly seen a clearer motive for a crime in my life.
Final vote tally in Congress, Authorization for Military Force Against Iraq
6 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 126 Democrats voted against the resolution in the House of Representatives. It passed with a little more than 2/3 of the votes.
compare this to the Senate vote for use of force in Afghanistan... which was unanimous. Not kidding. 98 yeas. 0 nays. 2 abstentions. Such a thing sounds impossible in today's political climate. Afghanistan was also signed off on by NATO and the UN. I've heard people call it an illegitimate or illegal war but actually it was probably the most "legitimate" and "legal" war in history if there is truly such a thing.
Iraq, on the other hand, was controversial even within the US, and extremely controversial internationally.
Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001
By the way, nice use of the Game of Thrones quote that I see whenever something on the Internet gets censored or deleted. It doesn't make you look predictable at all.
A group of terrorists hijacked some planes, as has been done many times before, to attack the WTC in New York, as they had several times before
was less messy or logical than this story:
george bush and his buddies in the illuminati the queen of england and the mossad and the rest of the time-traveling interdimensional lizard people who make up the elders of zion decided to stage the most elaborate and complicated false flag operation in human history so they got thousands of people and hundreds of intelligence and government agencies and media outlets across hundreds of countries to all cooperate and get in on the plot which involved blaming some fake terrorist attacks on a Saudi guy in Afghanistan which logically would make everyone want to invade Iraq...
Going to have to cut that one short because I know it goes on. But it's almost too simple, isn't it! So elegant and obvious when you think about it. Now that I'm typing it all out it just is so clear and makes such perfect sense. Man do I have egg on my face for ever doubting. Sincerest apologies.
2. even if there were... that's still a more convoluted story than the one where Al Qaeda attacked the US for the reasons they had publicly stated that they wanted to. And it raises way more questions than it answers.
3. I'm sure you could go on all day. And I could refute every point you brought up for just as long. I'm not well-versed in every conspiracy theory out there, but this one I've read about a ton, and it's all bullpoop... but... yeah... there's tons of it to sort through so I don't doubt that you could go on for a while.
Somebody’s gotta get invaded after that regardless if they had nothing to do with it. I’m sorry Americans, it might not be your fault, but your country is the most destabilising regime in the world, and surrendered the moral high ground shortly after WW2…
Good quiz!
The terrorist attacks of 9/11 obviously were meant to inspire fear, anger, and confusion... that's what terrorist attacks do. But Osama bin Laden believed that the US was a paper tiger. His goal was to reduce or eliminate US military presence in the Middle East. He did not get what he wanted.
To your second point: actually the opposite is true. Look up the Pax Americana. I mean about being destabilizing. As far as the moral high ground goes... that's a different argument. I'd say that the US edged out the USSR during the Cold War, and after, there was no such thing as the moral high ground because there was only one superpower in the world. Nothing to compare to
Also the Q Anon people and the Flat Earthers and those worried about the lizard people have exactly as much "evidence" as you do... some of them probably disregard some of the things you believe in... believing that the Illuminati controls the world isn't the credible, reasonable version of this. It's all complete nonsense. There is absolutely no reason to believe that 9/11 was an inside job or even that it was allowed to happen. None. Just like there's no reason to believe that Queen Elizabeth is a komodo dragon in a dress. Granted, a larger percentage of lay people would think the 2nd thing more preposterous than the 1st thing, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the same amount of evidence behind them.
The only person here attempting to minimize the loss of anyone's lives is you. and we all understand why. This is a quiz about one event and tragedy; you, because you don't care about the people who died in that due to political and personal bias, are trying to divert attention away to a different event and tragedy. Nobody said that the Chilean coup didn't matter - but it has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001 - and implying that it was planned in Virginia makes you sound as daft as those who believe the Mossad destroyed the WTC.
If someone is being tortured they are more likely to provide false information to stop the torture.
Then I think of my nephews, who never knew anything BUT war, and am saddened by this.
Perhaps this was one of the silver linings of the cold war. I don't think the present generation has potential global annihilation on their minds the way mine or my parents' did. Or if they do, it's more about climate change than World War 3. It's a shame human lives and memory are so short.
Beyond the immediate impact, my generation has grown up with mass surveillance, terrorism, war, and Islamophobia/anti-immigrant sentiment as the norm. Even though these are all terrible, I think to a certain extent we've normalized it and accepted a new order that prioritizes security. I'm guessing the COVID pandemic will have a similar impact on today's kids.
Are You Too Dumb to Live?
But more likely it's that QM thinks it's potentially inflammatory and he hates moderating long chains of comments.
Or am I missing something?
Kal, you’re a smart guy (or gal) but your position requires a certain amount of faith. My stance is more agnostic - I KNOW that I don’t know all, or even very much of the truth about high politics and international power struggles. Belief in anything leads to the cessation of enquiry, after all, why ask questions when you already KNOW the answer?
I’m not Bozonet, I’m just not completely satisfied with the official line. Do you believe that governments never lie and cover up for their own ends? Can you really not see the advantage of that course of events to a whole bunch of arms-manufacturing arseholes who think war is fine and dandy, and nicely profitable to boot? I’ve hardly seen a clearer motive for a crime in my life.