We made a map of all the countries that are historically considered to be part of Western Europe. Fill in the map by clicking each highlighted country.
This is mostly based on the Cold War
We are aware that some of these countries seem pretty far east
Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Austria, Switzerland, and all of the micronations except Luxembourg are not part of NATO. Most European countries are (although they all joined after the collapse of the Warsaw pact, of course).
Just because they weren't or aren't part of NATO, does not mean they are not historically or politically western. All of the nordic countries, as well as Ireland, Austria and Switzerland, were always in favour of the west and the USA. Austria has even been a member of the EU since the 70s.
The problem is that the 'Western Europe' definition is mostly a political one, rather than geographical. The boundaries of this particular region is precise country borders, rather than geographical boundaries like mountains or rivers. When you think about it, there isn't any utility for Geographers in splitting Europe in half. The modern term for this separation specifically follows the cold-war alliance dynamic between East and West, hence the inclusion of Greece and Finland. The geography purist side of me is also mildly annoyed with that, but there's no point arguing about it, really.
That wouldn't change the fact that Greece is geographically located more western than all the 'non-western European' countries west of Greece. Plus, Greece is much more culturally eastern european, being religiously orthodox and using a writing system sharing a history with the Cyrillic alphabet used by Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, yada yada.
Greece is still markedly different from the rest of Eastern Europe as the only non-Slavic country in the region. Sure, Greek culture influenced Slavic culture, but it also influenced Roman culture, which went on to become the basis for basically all of W. Europe, especially Italy, Spain, and France. At the same time, it has plenty of elements not found anywhere else in Europe.
My point? Greece is both Eastern and Western Europe, and in some ways its own category even. If I personally had to choose a term, I'd call it "Southeastern Europe," but obviously that doesn't have the same connotations.
Greece's ties with the western world even date to ancient times, as Ancient Greek philosophy has heavily influenced the values of the western world and the version of democracy that is currently dominant in the western world has its roots in ancient, athenian democracy.
I would say it ties back to Greece being seen as the "birthplace of Western civilization". Whether that historical characterization has much bearing on current cultural or geopolitical realities, I am not sure.
I wonder if Aristotle knew that he was representing "the West." He and his contemporaries might even have been crazy enough to think that Persians (and others) offered more of "civilizational" value than folks present elsewhere on this map.
"The West" was not a thing in Aristotle's time. This is a silly thing to consider. He was "representing" ideas about how societies could organize themselves, not predicting who would implement them, how they would evolve, or how they would fare against competing ideas. He was a philosopher, not a prophet.
Greece has been considered a western country throughout the last century. Its politics were mostly aligned with the West, it was a member of NATO and it had a western, "developed" way of life especially compared to the rest of the Balkans. Of course it retains some eastern elements, such as Orthodoxy and cultural similarities with both the Middle East and the Balkans but it is ethnolinguistically distinct.
This way you're sure to get the correct answer even if you don't know the proper spelling of the country.(Monaco is easy to spell, Philippines - not so much.) It's also easier for the not-geography-nerds to have a limited list of countries from which they have to choose.
I always take way longer for Switzerland and Austria than I should. They're my neighbors yet I have to think about which is which. Knowing where Basel belongs to and what it borders usually helps me out.
Me too, always ! And been on this site 6 months now, so have come across quizzes with both of them several times.
With this quiz it finally clicked though AUSTria is east... you know... it is the eastern country... Österreich..
I feel silly now not having looked at it that way before (and no not 100% obvious, cause switzerland is east of something aswell... but between these though I keep mixing up, the most eastern country is the eastern realm/lands :)
I don't get this quiz at all, Finland is way more to the east than Poland, Czech Republic or Slovakia, in the south you added Greece but Croatia, Albania or Slovenia would be more to the west than Greece.
So you included some of north east but didnt include some of central european countries, what sense does it make?
You dont seriously think that the guy creating ths quiz has just made it up did you? That is like saying on a quiz (not as a general thought, but aimed at the quizmaker) Why is british colombia (in the west of canada..) not considered to be usa.. alaska is, and it is much further north than british colombia... So so should british colombia.. fix the quiz please..
You're not wrong, and neither is the quiz... Western Europe is not an official term, and Greece and Finland might belong to it on cultural or historical grounds. I presume that the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg belong to Western Europe in your system? :)
what tour said. Also the definitions of western and eastern Europe used on the two jetpunk map quizzes pertaining to them seem to sort each according to whether they were more in the American or Soviet sphere of influence after World War 2. This was a very common way of dividing up the continent during the Cold War and up through today.
Guineafowl, birds from the west coast of Africa that resemble American turkeys, were imported to Europe around the time that European colonial empires were being founded via the Ottoman Empire, and thus via Turkey, and so came to be called "turkey hens" in Europe to differentiate from the chickens that were more common on the continent. When Europeans first settled in North America and saw the American fauna there, they noticed some birds that resembled these African fowl, and took to calling them "turkey birds" as well. Even though they had never seen this exact species of animal before.
Seems to me that the geographical terms North South East and West when applied to Europe depend on context. Countries can be more than one, and different ones depending on what you are talking about, so I don't agree with ^divantilya that this is just a question of geography. UK is Western sure, but in some aspects you might consider it to be Northern, and lump it together with Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands. Germany is a rather Western and rather Northern but more Central, not really Eastern well not any more perhaps. Spain and Italy are definitely but not entirely Southern. Greece has a long, close and complicated relationship with Italy, it is primarily a Mediterranean European country which makes it Southern, albeit in the South East corner and despite such Western tendencies as it may have. If we are to accept the tyranny of Geography we will have to accept that Greece is partly Asian, which is a lot stranger than calling it Western.
Politics, Nato, History need to be kept out of this quiz. Purely based on geography Greece is not western europe. There are other countries much further west!
What do you think geography is about if not politics, history, and popular convention? Your concept of east and west depends on these things, too. But that aside, this quiz is about "Western Europe"- which is a term describing a concept with political and historical connotations. It is not about "the westernmost countries of Europe." That would be a different thing.
No. There is no historical or popular convention that places Israel in Europe at all. Historical, political, and popular convention says that Israel is in Asia... even though it lies on the same land mass as Europe and Africa and there's nothing really that distinguishes these things apart from convention.
Israel lies further west than Russia or Ukraine, but it is not in Europe. It lies further south than Tunisia or Algeria, and further west than Somalia or Madagascar, but it is not in Africa. We conceptualize it as existing in Asia because the concept of Asia does not 100% rigidly adhere to lines of latitude and longitude, even though you could use cardinal directions to sort of paint a picture of where it was. For example you could say: Asia is the landmass to the east of the Urals and Caucuses, or Asia is the landmass east of the Sinai or the Suez. People would understand this description without becoming dunderheads pointing out that Somalia is east of the Suez, or that Turkey is west of the Urals. (of course this goes out the window when it comes time to talk about Cyprus).
In much the same way, you can describe Western Europe as that part of Europe that is west of the Iron Curtain, or west of Eastern Europe, or historically in the Western sphere of influence.
EuroVision is a singing competition where various countries in the "European Broadcasting Area," mostly European, and some non-European, compete. So, no. Israel would be one of those non-European countries. Australia received a special invitation to compete in 2015, being very clearly outside of this broadcasting area.
Although you can make the case for Norway, Sweden and Denmark based on both geography and history, Finland is entirely different. It has a long history with Russia with little contact with "the west" except during periods of Swedish domination. And geographically its out of the way. Greece can only be termed western for sentimental reasons. Even Austria can be viewed as central Europe -- historically the Austria-Hungary Empire was the very definition of central Europe, as my Austrian friend pointed out. He also claimed the Balkans weren't European at all -- not a claim I accepted.
Dunderheads and Rapscallions: think of it this way: Think of the whole of "Western Europe" as the block of countries found on this quiz. Think of the whole of "Eastern Europe" as the block of countries found on the Eastern Europe map quiz. Divorce them for a second from the terms "Western" and "Eastern" and just think of them as groups of countries bound by geopolitics etc.
Then, ask yourself, of those two groups of countries, which one is more west and which one is more east?
See how these terms were arrived at now?
You could say that the United States is south of Canada.
But you would not then try to argue that Toronto is in the United States because it's farther south than Anchorage. That would be dumb.
I love the caveat "we are aware that some of these countries are pretty far east"
Dare I say it, but if you're thinking about countries which are historically considered to be part of Western Europe, especially in regards to the Cold War, then Cyprus should be included too....!
If JetPunk recognizes Cyprus as Asian because of geographical location, Greece and Finland shouldn't be included in Western Europe. Politically, they may be Western European, but geographically you can't deny they're in Eastern Europe.
Just because they're not Slavic doesn't mean they're not Eastern European.
Knowledge is knowing that Greece (or Finland) is Eastern. Wisdom is knowing it is Western.
And my own addendum - Intelligence is understanding that the term in question (in this case, "western") has different definitions based on context. Context always matters.
Birthplace of western civilization and political system, with the west in WW1, with the Allies in WW2, in NATO and the EU since the 50s & 80s respectively.
Read the description of the quiz, ''all the countries that are *historically* considered to be part of Western Europe''. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say ''European countries that are historically considered to be part of the Western world''. Either way, Greece is a Western country
My point? Greece is both Eastern and Western Europe, and in some ways its own category even. If I personally had to choose a term, I'd call it "Southeastern Europe," but obviously that doesn't have the same connotations.
I think you bring up an interesting idea of Greece being both eastern and western Europe, but it's far from the only non-Slavic country in the region.
With this quiz it finally clicked though AUSTria is east... you know... it is the eastern country... Österreich..
I feel silly now not having looked at it that way before (and no not 100% obvious, cause switzerland is east of something aswell... but between these though I keep mixing up, the most eastern country is the eastern realm/lands :)
So you included some of north east but didnt include some of central european countries, what sense does it make?
Western Europe: Portugal, Spain, France, Andorra, Monaco, UK and Ireland.
Northern Europe: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland
Southern Europe: Italy, Vatican, San Marino, Malta, Cyprus, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Albania, Northern Macedonia, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Georgia, Azerbaijan Armenia and Turkey.
Eastern Europe: Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan
Central Europe: Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Czechia and Slovakia.
This is just my opinion and I may be wrong don't judge me.
Just FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_Europe
In much the same way, you can describe Western Europe as that part of Europe that is west of the Iron Curtain, or west of Eastern Europe, or historically in the Western sphere of influence.
What about Eurovision? Clearly Israel and Australia are in Europe
Then, ask yourself, of those two groups of countries, which one is more west and which one is more east?
See how these terms were arrived at now?
You could say that the United States is south of Canada.
But you would not then try to argue that Toronto is in the United States because it's farther south than Anchorage. That would be dumb.
Dare I say it, but if you're thinking about countries which are historically considered to be part of Western Europe, especially in regards to the Cold War, then Cyprus should be included too....!
Just because they're not Slavic doesn't mean they're not Eastern European.
And my own addendum - Intelligence is understanding that the term in question (in this case, "western") has different definitions based on context. Context always matters.
Read the description of the quiz, ''all the countries that are *historically* considered to be part of Western Europe''. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say ''European countries that are historically considered to be part of the Western world''. Either way, Greece is a Western country