Might it be an idea explain what an "HDI" measures? "Human development" could mean a million things! (And, considering Bahrain's disgraceful human rights record, it clearly doesn't include human rights)
Education (mostly literacy), life expectancy, and wealth (I think income per capita). Pretty simple formula. Obviously not comprehensive. Probably not the best.
I am really curious what people from Cyprus think about where they are, Europe or Asia. Also what, if anything, the government stance is (like in schoolbooks it read that they are located in Asia).
Look at a map of the eastern Mediterranean - pretty much all of Turkey is in Asia, Cyprus is closer to Turkey, Syria and Lebanon than to any European country.
Malta is closer to Sicily than any other place . . . and a lot farther west than Istanbul, never mind Cyprus.
I got Cyprus with 5 seconds left after guessing every other country with even a remote possibility of making it on the list. but, yeah, it really does "feel" like it's in Europe.
It would be preferable if the people in these countries were even worse off? I understand disliking the politics, religion, culture, etc of these countries but I can't see why any country having a high HDI would be a shame.
Perhaps the issue is not wishing that their conditions were any worse, but that HDI were calculated differently, in which case countries with fewer egregious human rights abuses could surpass Saudi Arabia and Qatar despite having less money than those two countries.
It would be preferable if the wealth of those countries weren't built on a tiny class owning vast extractable resources while consigning a large underclass to slavery, yes.
Both of those positions make sense. But considering that HDI also factors in life expectancy and education levels in addition to wealth I'd say it's only a shame that more countries aren't as high. Also, wealth tends to lead eventually to moderation.
^ the high cost of some goods in these countries screws things up when you measure using PPP. But the UAE shows up, now. and I checked the source; Kuwait is in 21st place. Realistically it should probably be 13th.
Kuwait showing up below Palau, Kazakhstan, Turkey and Uruguay just makes this list seem like a complete joke. and that's only because of PPP and the strength of the Kuwaiti Dinar, one of the strongest currencies in the world.
To be fair, anywhere else in the world except Jetpunk, but very much including Cyprus, people agree that it's European. Quizmaster has just decided at some point that he's digging his heels in, and now it's waaaaay too late for him to cave, even if his position is untenable.
Some of your comments use to be pretty obnoxious but since coming out of JetPunk comments section retirement it feels like you are endeavoring to be a full-time troll. What you said here is just (easily) provably false, and a five second Google search would have revealed as much.
To be clear this is a quiz website, not an encyclopaedia, not a political website and not a repository of international treaties. Nor is Jetpunk a nation state with standing internationally. It has no diplomatic service and hasn’t been assigned any responsibilities by the United Nations. QM (as far as I know) doesn’t sit on any international court with jurisdiction over such things. So, no, Jetpunk hasn’t officially awarded anyone anything. They’ve come to a decision on one or two disputed facts and probably have their reasons. I don’t agree that Cyprus is in Asia either, or that Crimea is in Russia but, generally speaking, JP’s accuracy is extraordinary, given that it’s a free site with user generated content. If you want to support Ukraine you can do what I (and plenty of people I know) have done and donate money. They need that more than they need hopelessly misplaced virtue signalling.
I bet it's another quirk of that PPP baloney. The relatively high cost of living there and the strong Kuwaiti dinar takes down their wealth per capita ranking when using PPP (vs cheaper countries like Saudi, Bahrain, Oman, and Uruguay), even though Kuwait is a tiny country and it makes no sense to do that.
It looks like you are right that HDI uses PPP. However I agree with the UN that PPP is a better measure of prosperity than nominal GDP. Not only is it is more strongly correlated with life expectancy, but it also varies much less year to year.
A much bigger issue is whether HDI methodology takes into account the vast group of uneducated, poorly paid, and exploited South Asian residents that form a large percentage of the population of the Gulf states. Based on the numbers, I'd say no.
And thinking that Kuwait is less prosperous than Turkey or Uruguay is just flat-out downright absurd. Visit these places sometime and you'll see just how ridiculous these rankings are and how badly PPP distorts reality.
Cyprus is most definitely in Europe. Despite its location, it is regarded by the great majority of experts and its residents as being in Europe, and it's in the EU. This is like calling Indonesia part of Oceania.
nope. If you look at trackrecords anyway, people have often disregarded the most obvious things. (what was it again, you cant eat animals besides the animal otter/beaver because it swims. I know weird example, but some will now what I mean).
Allmost all major things have exceptions, so why should this be any different, why would people suddenly start to follow their own rules, they never did before...
I tried paraguay, then I didnt bother to try uruguay... Argentina is doing well though, together wth uruguay being the only country in the americas besides isa and canada. (ow, and bahamas)
Actually, I'd say Argentina is doing pretty badly compared to where it was historically. Chile's now overtaken it, and Uruguay may well do so as well in the not too distant future. Once it stood far above any other Latin American country or even Spain.
"Education" seems very easy to fudge. You can give everyone a college degree but it doesn't mean they really learned anything. Saudi Arabia supposedly needs to import large numbers of western experts to run vital infrastructure, so it would seem that the education system is lacking. My guess is that the UN simply measures number of years of education.
To what extent do differences in male and female education, participation in the workforce, etc. factor into HDI? I understand the women in Saudi Arabia still get educations far superior to women in many developing countries, but still far from equal to the education that men get. They also aren't very active in the economy I'm guessing, given their strict guardianship laws (one source I found has them as only 15% of the labor force). Do they just take the average of male and female education and workforce participation and ignore gender gaps?
Hey, the qualification says "NOT in Europe". Turkey is in Europe. Not all of it, of course, but it's there. Russia is also mostly in Asia, but it's not on the list. Surely it would outrank Kazakhstan?
Only part of Istanbul is in Europe, the rest of the country is in Asia, along with the majority of its population. The majority of Russia's population is in the very western part that is geographically European.
As a Cypriot taking this quiz from Cyprus and not being able to guess Cyprus in this quiz, although I do know the Quizmaster's policy of considering Cyprus an Asian territory and I remember it in other quizes, I believe it is time for Quizmaster to reconsider his decision. It is quizes like this, which consider the social, political and economic environment of a location rather its geographical environment, that make the non-inclusion of Cyprus in Europe seem problematic.
After all, Europe itself is mostly a politico-socio-economic concept rather a geographical one.
Yes, yes! Culture determines geography- not maps! While plate tectonics may offer clues to a country's continent or origin, we all know that it is the restaurant and entertainment choices of their populace that determines their continental belonging. Dress for the continent you want to be, I say. Cartographers be damned!
Turkey should not be on here due to it being a transcontinental country with East Thrace being the Turkish region in Europe consisting of many provinces and cities including Istanbul in Europe. Even though most of the country is in Asia it is still a European country. Yes, Turkey's capital is on it's Asian side and most of it's population is in it's Asian side, but these reasons still do not mean that Turkey is not a European country. East Thrace is part of it's contiguous land mass and has many metro-politician cities and regions in Turkey. Turkey should be removed with Panama being added under Uruguay.
Got Palau as a complete guess and I have no idea how it made it to this list. I don't know much about most oceanic countries though, does anyone know its situation?
For those confused by the presence of countries like Saudi Arabia, Brunei, and Qatar on this list, the HDI formula only takes three things into account:
1- GDP per capita, so if a country has terrible income distribution, this result is misleading; 2 - for how many years their people study, without taking into account what is studied and the quality of the education; and 3 - for how many years its people should live, which does not take into account many problems like human rights violations.
Saudi Arabia, for instance, suffers from all these problems, but this is hidden from the formula.
In general, the HDI gives us a good insight into the quality of life in a country, because if you live long, study a lot and earn a lot of money, you are probably better off than most.
However, this doesn't mean that the information is perfect and that there are no problems with the methodology, the main problem being that the formula is purely quantitative, not qualitative.
ROFL. Georgia and Armenia have very little growth especially the latter. Azerbaijan could have been on that list but their leaders are not good at investing oil money for improvement.
I'm not surprised to see the oilstates as high as they are, but was not expecting to see Turkey or even Argentina ahead of Uruguay, Panama or Costa Rica
i put turkiye which is the correct spelling but it didn't register that. also turkiye is in europe, next time make it clear whether countries that are partially in europe count or not
Malta is closer to Sicily than any other place . . . and a lot farther west than Istanbul, never mind Cyprus.
(Read description)
Plop
Allmost all major things have exceptions, so why should this be any different, why would people suddenly start to follow their own rules, they never did before...
> and it's in the EU
Did Australians ever claim to be a part of Europe? Do any experts consider USA a European country? Is Canada in the EU?
Ignoring some arguments and destroying others is easy. But that's not how discussions should go
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania
After all, Europe itself is mostly a politico-socio-economic concept rather a geographical one.
1- GDP per capita, so if a country has terrible income distribution, this result is misleading; 2 - for how many years their people study, without taking into account what is studied and the quality of the education; and 3 - for how many years its people should live, which does not take into account many problems like human rights violations.
Saudi Arabia, for instance, suffers from all these problems, but this is hidden from the formula.
In general, the HDI gives us a good insight into the quality of life in a country, because if you live long, study a lot and earn a lot of money, you are probably better off than most.
However, this doesn't mean that the information is perfect and that there are no problems with the methodology, the main problem being that the formula is purely quantitative, not qualitative.