I don't care, so finished at the 456 B.C. mark, got 256.507257%, and I lied, I do care, so I'm only a 7 week old pair of headphones that mutated from a bag of trailmix published inside your local dominos factory for christmas trees in the Northern Atlantian Central Mall.
Catholics didn't change the commandments at all. There are far more than just 10, anyway. The Church, from the beginning, summarised the commandments into the basic 10, which are slightly different from the list above. The Douay-Rheims version, used officially for many centuries by the Church, was a translation from the 4th century Latin Vulgate. Latin was the official language because those educated enough to be able to read could read Latin. 'Vulgate' means the language of the people. The wording of some of the Commandments was changed by the protestants, later on. E.g, the word 'graven' was questioned by some other readers (above). The context (in the actual Bible - i.e. the very next verse) of the word 'graven' is to make an image to be adored. Catholics are absolutely forbidden to adore anything, or anyone, except the one true God. Images are only to serve as reminders to pray. The Bible itself has God giving instructions for particular images to be made (re. Ark of the Covenant)
Catholics friggin love graven images. It was one of the Protestant's chief criticisms of them. So they did some Biblical ret-conning. No biggie... all religions have done it. So, nothing to be ashamed of unless you still believe your particular religion's holy text (whichever that may be) is the perfect and unchanging word of god.
But why would Catholics be less embarrassed about following what they believe due to there being Protestants who believe something different? If they think the Protestants are right then why are they still Catholics? Or is he saying that Protestants wouldn't feel weird about believing in the perfect and unchanging word of God when the whole foundation of their religious movement was the idea that they ought to come along and change it?
The point is that not everyone thinks religion is stupid. Don't talk like everyone's on your side. So no, I'm not ashamed because I think the Bible is the word of God. Because billions of people do. Deal with it.
Truth and reality are on my side. I don't particularly care if delusion and fantasy are. I'll take my Stephen Hawking, Thomas Jefferson, Carl Sagan, Voltaire and Epicurus... you can have your Ray Comfort, Pat Robertson, Kirk Cameron and Ken Ham. Consider yourself dealt with.
I'll take my Martin Luther, JS Bach, Florence Nightengale, JRR Tolkien, Mother Teresa, and Dr. Martin Luther King...you can have your Kathy Griffin, Lance Armstrong, Marilyn Manson, and CM Punk.
Mother Teresa was a horrible person who deliberately kept people in pain and suffering because she thought this would bring them closer to her imaginary friend. Marilyn Manson, in addition to being a talented musician and performer, is an intelligent and well-spoken guy.
That aside, the point was that Aesthus saying billions of people are on his side of the argument (and then, as if that's some kind of epic mic drop, "deal with it!") is a dumb argument. You didn't get it, though, not surprisingly.
This will continue to be a dumb argument when religious people ultimately become outnumbered by atheists in the future, and if I'm still alive then I'll continue pointing out that it's a dumb argument.
I mean, believe what you want and I certainly respect your right to do so, but the idea that the bible could be the actual word of god is just not logically tenable - if only because there are hundreds of versions in hundreds of languages, and no original text.
Nice One! You should make more religion quizzes. I'm suprised most people don't get covet but my sixth grade teacher ground that into me... so it was easy.
Same here. I'm Catholic and it seems the commandments on this quiz differ in that they split the first commandment into two, bump commandments 2-8 down a peg, and combine the 9th and 10th commandment into one.
Fundamentalism on this topic, down to the finer points of translation, is almost funny given the many and various translations across the several bridge languages, eventually to modern English, which was, after all, good enough for Jesus Christ.
I'm surprised kill wasn't number one in which people get correct. I mean come on guys shouldn't that be what first comes to mind? Don't kill other people?
Isn't it ironic that the commandment says "Thou shalt not kill" yet, centuries after this commandment was given, Jesus had to prevent a mob from stoning an adulteress to death? - This is one reason why, though I believe in the Supreme Being and his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, I have ZERO respect for organized religion.
Everyone is acting like these are the only commandments given by God in the Bible. This are just 10 that were put into a list for Moses. Also, the sixth amendment is originally translated "Thou shalt not murder", meaning shed innocent blood.
The "golden rule" is far more sensical than the 10 commandments, and probably older. We have examples of variations on this axiom from ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, ancient India, ancient Persia, among other places.
In Jewish and Rabbincal tradition, Hillel the elder emphasized this: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." Jesus summarized the Torah in a similar way: "Do to others what you want them to do to you... This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets"
Muhammad, also, made similar statements about common sense and decency superseding religious scripture. I can't find the exact quote now but it's something like "if you think a thing is evil it is evil, if you think a thing is good it is good."... something along these lines basically: you have judgment, use it.
All of which are, of course, an inferior version of the Kantian moral imperative: Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.
1700 years of advances in science, morality, and philosophy separate Hillel and Kant. Just as over a thousand years separate Hillel and the (almost certainly legendary) Moses. And 200 years separate Kant from Sam Harris. The discussion of right and wrong continues to advance forward, and indeed, this is the major (though hardly only) problem with moral systems that are (literally) set in stone - as the 10 Commandments were.
I like to bring up these verses to believers to point out that, even according to their most revered prophets, religion is evil. For instance, the Bible instructs you to murder your neighbor if they pick up sticks on a Saturday. But if that were me I'd prefer to not be killed for it. I wouldn't want to be stoned to death on my father's doorstep for not being a virgin on my wedding night, either, so I wouldn't do that to someone. And, though I had this done to me, if I had had a choice in the matter I wouldn't want to have been indoctrinated in the superstition, fear, and hate of the religious tradition that I was brought up in. If god gave me a brain, judgment, reason, intellect, and my senses I feel like it would be somehow wrong to not use them. Using them, we can see that religion is a great evil and that gods are an invention of man. Muhammad, Jesus, and Hillel the Elder agree on this: we have the capacity to reason our way to moral truths. We don't need old books for that.
I also do not need Muslims, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, etc., to ask for an opinion without reason from the Bible! It really happened, but all that you said ended when Jesus died on the cross, but now he lives and is in heaven at the right hand of God. But the choice is yours if you want to go to hell. Why did you do this questionnaire if you complained about the Word of God?!
Jacktheguy, The Qur'an came from Muhammad. The book of Mormons came from Joseph Smith. But the Bible is unique among the many sacred books in the world. It was not written by a single person. On the contrary, the Old and New Testaments were written by 40 different authors, from Asia, Africa and Europe, over a period of 1600 years. Bible writers - even over such a long period of time - all delivered the same basic message: the God who created the heavens and the earth provided a way for people to get to know him personally. In addition to singular authorship, the Bible also has the best history of prophecies that were later fulfilled prophecies show why writers could write: "Thus saith the Lord ..." - they were speaking for Him who knows "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10)
Not quite like Kalbahumut. God gave you free will, but you need to be aware of the consequences of your actions. One of the consequences of choosing not to accept God and not believe in Jesus sacrifice on the cross is go to hell. Did you understand?
So multiple people over the course of hundreds of years spread out over three different continents telling the same story means it’s true? So does that also mean everything that happened in Beowulf is true? Or The Iliad and The Odyssey? Just because multiple people may or may not have written down these stories doesn’t make it any more true.
Jacktheguy, the same thing happens to atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc. They can be in all parts of the planet. But does that also mean that you and they are right? There is no use escaping.
Do not know!? Have pity! You don't know either! If you resist my thoughts, take your beliefs away from me. I don't want to create discussions for a distorted subject. The only illusion here is you!
I'm sorry. Both your intellect and your mastery of English make it impossible for you to actually engage in serious conversation. I feel like if I go on responding to you it's just going to appear abusive and one-sided since you lack the capacity to even defend yourself. So... I'm probably just going to ignore you from now on, for he most part.
Anyway if you are really interested in this subject I suggest looking it up and reading about it. Moses is definitely mythical. And Jesus may be entirely mythical as well, but, whether he is or not, the many contradictory accounts of his life as told in the Gospels certainly have been heavily mythologized, and the true historical Jesus remains elusive. This is the broad historical consensus, even amongst educated believers qualified to have an opinion on the subject.
If you wish to have the last word go ahead. I'm done.
I'll be honest again (unlike you), I used the translator, but I do have intellect I have no defense?! You can only be kidding! Give me examples of mythical and wrong things in the Bible regarding Moses and Jesus! I do read, but you say you do, and lazily, for sure. Well, this subject is really distorted so we must stop here. Good afternoon.
How and where am I being dishonest? I know I said I'd let you have the last word so I won't make further argument. Just wondering. You always do that "I know you are but what am I" thing, though.
Since the Catholic Church worships through graven images, it would be logical that they would eliminate that prohibition from their version the ten commandments,don't you think?
If it was possible to put religious arguments aside (I'm quite confident, from experience, that it isn't), it would be intersting to discuss these commandments from an ethical point of view. I've heard many people say that, even if you're not religious, the ten commandments are still good guidelines to live by. I think that they fail even by that measure. I mean, how does not making graven images make life better? Isn't honouring your parents terrible advice for victims of abuse? How does "not having any other gods before him" translate into the life of an atheist? Why is limiting free speech to spare the feeling of a deity, which may or may not exist, a sensible thing to do? What if I'd rather take Wednesdays off? Some of these I can actually get behind, like the not stealing (although, that also depends on whether or not the property laws of the society I happen to live in are fair), or the not killing (even though killing is sometimes necessary, such as in self-defense).
Ten commandments aside, I find that, from an ethical point of view, much of the bible, even when seen through the pink-coloured lenses of modern christians, is hardly defendable. The whole Jesus sacrificing himself story, for instance. How is that not scapegoating, and since when is scapegoating acceptable, or admirable?
As a rule, I don't comment on JetPunk anymore, but I want to mention that many comments (especially as regarding the Christian faith) are based on ignorance. Please remember that "ignorance" simply means "a lack of knowledge"; it is not an attack. The commandment about 'graven images' is not a carte blanche injunction against them--it specifically forbids the creation of graven images for the express purpose of worshipping them. Even the Temple (constructed according to God's specific instructions) contained graven images of cherubim on the veil as well as golden statues above the mercy seat. Also, the commandment stating "Thou shalt not kill" applies only to intentional, premeditated murder--not self-defense. This can only be understood from the Hebrew word; not the KJV English translation. I could address so much more, but that's it for this missive. I'm heading back into 'lurking' status once again. Fire away.
Are any religious scholars in here who can explain briefly what they're supposed to imply? (in layman terms). I'm not really religious, just curious about the basics, and what the intent was.
1: only follow the Bible. Don't mix religions. We're doing things this way.
2: don't make images of God(?). I thought .. Catholicism(?) loved pictures of Jesus. Maybe that's not God? I thought the typical white-haired bearded God wearing a toga is all over the place in Occidental countries? I think Islam doesn't like pictures of Gods/prophets/people. This one seems ignored, in my ignorant opinion.
3: Don't say the word God in unecessary situations. Give the word weight/behavioral training; like modern euphemisms for subjects that are instructed to be delicate/taboo in society.
4: Either go to church on Sunday, or don't work. I guess that creates the impression that society as a whole observes the religion. So others should fall in line.
5: obey your parents. #1, they're religious and teaching you
..to be the same. #2, it's good advice, assuming you come from a decent family.
6: don't murder
7: don't cheat on your husband/wife
8: don't steal
9: don't lie? I guess it means, don't commit perjury.
10: don't wish for things you don't have? I thought religious people were fine with doing things like wishing for lavish lifestyles and trying to get them.
I think I'd like Christianity more if it punished sinners harder. I think there are a lot of murderers, cheaters, and thieves, who think they're going to Heaven. Not to mention someone who makes a lifelong oath in marriage, "until death do us part", then gets divorced. Those aren't people I want to hang out with.
Fun game, Kal.
That aside, the point was that Aesthus saying billions of people are on his side of the argument (and then, as if that's some kind of epic mic drop, "deal with it!") is a dumb argument. You didn't get it, though, not surprisingly.
This will continue to be a dumb argument when religious people ultimately become outnumbered by atheists in the future, and if I'm still alive then I'll continue pointing out that it's a dumb argument.
And apparently Lutherans follow the same numbering as Catholics.
Like your friend's sweater... or your neighbor's wife/husband.
Me after quiz: yeah eights not thaaaat bad
In Jewish and Rabbincal tradition, Hillel the elder emphasized this: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." Jesus summarized the Torah in a similar way: "Do to others what you want them to do to you... This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets"
Muhammad, also, made similar statements about common sense and decency superseding religious scripture. I can't find the exact quote now but it's something like "if you think a thing is evil it is evil, if you think a thing is good it is good."... something along these lines basically: you have judgment, use it.
Anyway if you are really interested in this subject I suggest looking it up and reading about it. Moses is definitely mythical. And Jesus may be entirely mythical as well, but, whether he is or not, the many contradictory accounts of his life as told in the Gospels certainly have been heavily mythologized, and the true historical Jesus remains elusive. This is the broad historical consensus, even amongst educated believers qualified to have an opinion on the subject.
If you wish to have the last word go ahead. I'm done.
1: only follow the Bible. Don't mix religions. We're doing things this way.
2: don't make images of God(?). I thought .. Catholicism(?) loved pictures of Jesus. Maybe that's not God? I thought the typical white-haired bearded God wearing a toga is all over the place in Occidental countries? I think Islam doesn't like pictures of Gods/prophets/people. This one seems ignored, in my ignorant opinion.
3: Don't say the word God in unecessary situations. Give the word weight/behavioral training; like modern euphemisms for subjects that are instructed to be delicate/taboo in society.
4: Either go to church on Sunday, or don't work. I guess that creates the impression that society as a whole observes the religion. So others should fall in line.
5: obey your parents. #1, they're religious and teaching you
6: don't murder
7: don't cheat on your husband/wife
8: don't steal
9: don't lie? I guess it means, don't commit perjury.
10: don't wish for things you don't have? I thought religious people were fine with doing things like wishing for lavish lifestyles and trying to get them.
I think I'd like Christianity more if it punished sinners harder. I think there are a lot of murderers, cheaters, and thieves, who think they're going to Heaven. Not to mention someone who makes a lifelong oath in marriage, "until death do us part", then gets divorced. Those aren't people I want to hang out with.