So Kal... why make a well researched relevant comment that people might gain something from reading when you could passive aggressively snipe at someone you have a silly gripe with?
It doesn't matter WHAT your arguments are – whether your logic is impeccable, your reasoning flawless, your rhetoric compelling. It doesn't even matter if you're completely correct; *none* of it gives you the right to be so disrespectful to the quiz maker that the freakin' site administrator has to delete your comments. I mean come on – we have some lively discussions around here, so if JetPunk had to actually REMOVE comments, I can only guess how ad hominem, rude, and horrible they must have been. Please don't be assholes, fellow quizzers; we're all here to learn! And thank you so much Akasnah, for a well-thought-out and challenging quiz. I (like the vast majority of people, I'm sure) really enjoyed it! 😚
The comments I left were not rude. The quiz author himself was being rude, at first inviting input and criticism, and then after receiving it becoming increasingly adversarial to the point of insinuating that everyone who disagreed with the quiz was somehow stupid or ill-informed when they were not. I made comments defending these other commenters who were being unfairly attacked.
There are comments that by themselves are not rude, but when piled on to dozens of other similar comments constitute bullying. Maybe, Kal, you were just the first in a chorus of people and were in no way to blame. In that case, it would have been the people coming later with repetitive and unnecessary comments that are at fault. Let's imagine that somebody bumps you on the shoulder when you're walking down the street. No big deal, right. Now imagine that everyone does it. It is now an extremely big deal. That's what happened on this quiz and it was not cool. l have no problem banning people who don't contribute to the conversion and just pile on.
Maybe but I still hold that it was the quiz author's own responses that led to this devolvement of the conversation. At first it was "hm, well, if more people have this opinion I guess I can change the quiz" and then quickly became "you people are stupid this is the way it is and anyone saying different is ignorant"... over a point that is moot at best.
Sometimes condescension is appropriate. Other times it is not. In the case where you are arguing over a moot point where there is no clear correct answer just different opinions and interpretations, and each side has clearly presented evidence to back up their interpretation, this is not an appropriate time for one side to become condescending.
When, after you engaged in such an argument, someone comes along and disparages your source without good reason and without presenting any evidence to the contrary or a compelling counter-argument, this is an appropriate time to respond with condescension.
what I mentioned above... there were many posters pointing out that it was odd to define seas such as the Red and Mediterranean as being part of the oceans that they flow into. Those posters thoughtfully shared links to articles and other sources that backed up this understandable and commonplace opinion, but then were being responded to as if they were unforgivably ignorant. That was uncalled for and deserved being pointed out. Differences of opinion on this would be fine if it didn't lead to rude condescension.
There is a really tiny stretch in Southern Israel that borders Jordan and the Sinai part of Egypt. It's on the Gulf of Aquaba, which is part of the Red Sea
Not sure if this has been mentioned; is the Med Sea classed as part of the Atlantic? Likewise the Red Sea as part of the Indian? My geography lessons were a long time ago, so I wouldn't like to say (just making excuses for my poor score, I suppose!)
Seas are considered to be arms of different oceans. That's how they are defined by the international organization, the International Hydrographic Organization. All governments and international organizations follow those definitions, which are also used on sites like Wikipedia.
I don't like how both Argentina and Chile border both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Where do the oceans start and end down there, because that is impossible unless they both occupy the same space.
Usually the borders between the oceans in the south are set by the longitude of the southernmost tip of South America, Africa and Australia. For South America that is between 67-68° West. At that point we have a couple of islands belonging to Chile and lying of both sides of the longitude, but also the Beagle Channel, which is only seperated by those Chilenean islands from the open sea, and touches Argentina on its northern banks. That part of Argentina stretches further west than 68° so it should be the Pacific on that side of the Beagle Channel.
When you think about it, isn't it mathematically impossible for both Chile and Argentina to border both the Pacific and the Arctic? Or are there some islands that are considered as well?
Yes, there are some islands, the Beagle channel is split between the Atlantic and Pacific, and Argentina touches both. Chile is self explanatory if you look at a map.
No European would ever consider the Mediteranean as part of the Atlantic. It has already been stated, but I just want to say it again, no Italian, Greek, you name it... would ever claim that they live on the Atlantic. So, if you want a quiz to be fun and doable, you need to include this.
Well, they're at sea level; they're salty; they engage in constant flows with the oceans. Unless you're talking about things called "Seas" such as the Caspian.
I'm European, I know geography and I now that the Mediterranean is part of the Atlantic. An ocean is a supercategory for a group of salt-water bodies that are interconnected directly. All seas, bays, gulfs etc., belong to one ocean. However, that does not mean they necessarily have the same properties. The Mediterranean is connected to the main Atlantic body of water by the Strait of Gibraltar and not to any other ocean, therefore it is part of the Atlantic. It is often refered to as Mediterranean and not Atlantic because of its large scale, such as the Gulf of Mexico or the Caribbean is. And even the Mediterranean itself has more subdivisions that locals use commonly. Venetians would often say they live at the Adriatic Sea, Athenians at the Aegean sea and so on. By your logic would those seas not be considered part of the Mediterranean?
Supersets are it exactly. It's equally true to say that Venice is in the Venetian Lagoon, the Gulf of Venice, the Adriatic Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, and the Atlantic Ocean. Even the oceans are part of the "global ocean" or "world sea".
I am Irish. When we talk about our Atlantic coast, we all know what part of the country that is - the coast from out North West to our South West. Dubliners they'll tell you the water between them and Liverpool is the Irish Sea. None of that alters the fact that we also know that Ireland is an island in the Atlantic.
Well, I'm European, and I consider the Mediterranean to be part of the Atlantic. True, I would never say that I was going to the Atlantic coast if travelling to Italy or Greece, but neither would anyone claim to be going to the Atlantic coast if travelling to the Caribbean, even though that is also part of the Atlantic. This is just because it helpful to name the specific sea for ease, but for this quiz the Mediterranean is definitely part of the Atlantic.
As a European, I do consider the Mediterranean to be part of the Atlantic. I would agree that we don't commonly think about it this way, but once you understand that all seas are part of an Ocean, there's really no doubt which one the Mediterranean belongs to!
though if you go south through the Suez you end up in the Indian Ocean not the Atlantic, and if you swim up river along the Nile eventually you might get to Lake Victoria.. is that also part of the Atlantic? I know the definition of river is that it flows in one direction and what's upriver is different from what's downriver, but, there are other popular definitions being casually tossed aside for this quiz.
and if you go north through the suez you end up in the mediterranean sea, part of the atlantic. this is a literal fact, idk why you're in these comments complaining so much about some quiz on some website like it affects your life.
I loved this quiz! The instructions are clear, and it made me really think about the geography in a different way (which is why I come to JetPunk in the first place) More like this, please!
I need someone to explain East Timor. clearly I'm missing something about the Timor Sea/Atlantic Ocean. easy to see how East Timor touches Pacific but I thought maybe the 2nd ocean would be Indian. please help. thanks
Seems like you've got to count either Greenland (as a pre-filled item) or Denmark - Greenland seems to border both the Arctic and Atlantic, no matter how you designate it, but I don't believe it can be categorized as a territory the same way that Guam or Bermuda are territories.
Réunion & Mayotte, close to Madagascar in the Indian ocean are overseas regions.
Not sure which one counts for the Pacific, but either New Caledonia (special status) or French Polynesia and Wallis et Futuna (overseas collectivities) works.
Even without their mainland, France would still border the Atlantic (Caribbean sea) through, at least, French Guiana, Guadeloupe and Martinique (overseas regions).
I think it's because Reunion & Mayotte are French regions (comparable to US states, like Hawaii), whereas the Pitcairn Islands are UK territories (comparable to US territories like Guam). The overseas regions enjoy equal political status to France's domestic regions, but territories do not. It's not just about whether a country has land overseas, but how it regards that land and how the land participates in the government.
I got France as a last answer with just a couple of seconds left... and I live there! That's the sign of a good quiz: it forces you to think about stuff you know very well in a different way.
I seem to remember that the board game 10 Days in Asia considered Singapore to be on the Indian and Pacific Oceans... a brief Google search seems to support this (it touches the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean via the South China Sea). Great quiz though; I couldn't for the life of me figure out what country bordered the Pacific, Atlantic AND Indian Oceans ignoring marginal seas.
dang i always forget about french guiana, i spent the whole time thinking, how is it physically possible to border the pacific, atlantic, and indian at the same time?
I think this analogy will help... French Guiana is to France as Hawaii is to the United States. Legally, it is just like any other part of France. But France also has territories that have a similar legal status to Puerto Rico in the United States. As an American, this helped me to understand the distinction which can seem trivial to an outsider. Hope this helps!
Thank you for your response! I honestly saw it as metropolitan France and 'the rest', so I learned something new. The 'overseas regions', namely Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Mayotte and Réunion are legally the same as the metropolitan territories. The last two are in the Indian Ocean, and the first three + metropolitan France are on the Atlantic.
But what 'external region' of France borders the Pacific? French Polynesia and Wallis and Futuna are semi-autonomous 'overseas collectivities', New Caledonia is an 'autonomous territory' and no other French territory borders the Pacific. Surely these are France's Guams rather than Hawaiis?
That's like saying Hawaii is not part of the USA, French Guiana, and many other external regions have the same status in France as Hawaii has in the US. I think a few people would be mad if you said Hawaii was a territory.
Because they are different groups: Chile borders the Pacific and touches the Atlantic through the Straits of Magellan. Argentina is the other way around.
to be fair, if a country borders the Mediterranean and the Indian somewhere, one only really has to think from Egypt round to Turkey - about 5 countries? Agree with all the comments still remaining - great quiz and hope not many were forced to walk the plank ;-)
France does not touch the Pacific ocean, only its overseas territories do. If overseas territories count, Denmark touches the Arctic, and Britannia rules all of the waves.
An overseas region is not the same as an overseas territory. It's the difference between Hawaii and Guam. Hawaii is far from the US mainland, but it has the same status as Nebraska among US states. It has senators, representatives, and its citizens vote in federal elections. It has access to the same federal programs and is subject to all the same federal laws. You couldn't exclude Hawaii or Alaska from a list of states just because of their distance from the mainland. It's the same with the French departments. They participate in the government, are bound by federal laws, and benefit from federal social programs. The same is not true for overseas territories like Guam, Denmark, and the Pitcairn Islands. They are regarded differently and function differently, so it makes more sense to exclude them from a list of states, just as you would exclude Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands when listing US states.
I think SirGeorgington is right though. France has five 'external regions': Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Réunion and Mayotte. None of them touch the Pacific.
France is quite complicated. The area in French Polynesia is neither an overseas territory nor a region. They call it overseas collective. The instructions don't include that but it's not excluded either.
French Polynesia, New Caledonia and Wallis-and-Futuna are not overseas regions, but territories. France decided in 2003 to change the name "overseas territories" to "overseas collectivities", but it doesn't change the fact that they are actually territories according to the common definition.
For Russia showing that it only borders Atlantic through Baltic sea is incorrest - both Black sea and sea of Azov exist, and both are also bordered by Russia. So it would be better to exclude mention of the sea from Russian answer block
i came here to try to find out why France is touching the Indian ocean. but the comments were deleted, thank you it was really necessary and appreciated, your a hero...
Hi I watched Google Maps, and Honduras border, the Carribean Sea, and the Pacific Ocean as Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Mexico or Guatemala. Can you put it into the quiz?
Great quiz! I honestly don't see any problems with it, seems well-researched and thought out and really made me think at some points. And I really enjoy that last caveat haha.
I don't know if this has been said in one of the deleted comments, but does noone outside of Australia acknowledge the existence of the Southern Ocean?
I kind of expected an update based on the National Geographic Society recognizing the Southern Ocean as a thing earlier this month. But then it showed up on the front page again without an update, perhaps in defiance of the NGS? Odd. Perhaps the NGS doesn't recognize the Mediterranean as part of the Atlantic or the Red Sea as part of the Indian Ocean and this was calculated as a dominance display. Or perhaps it was scheduled to be on the front page again months ago and the Southern Ocean being in the news this month was just a coincidence.
France is always the mystery answer. Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans? Am I somehow unfamiliar with the largest country on Earth? Antarctica isn't a country. Oh wait, it's France. Duh.
How does France border the Pacific Ocean with "external territories excluded?" French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna, and New Caledonia are all clearly external territories, a totally different classification than the five external departments (none of which border the Pacific). If you are going to not include external territories, then you have to be consistent with it!
That's just not true, ooftown. New Caledonia is a special collectivity, not an overseas region (using your U.S. analogy, it's closer in status to Puerto Rico than Hawaii). In accordance with the caveat provided by the creator of the quiz, France's Pacific border should be removed.
1) Given that Greenland is equal in status to Denmark proper within the Kingdom of Denmark, Denmark borders both the Atlantic Ocean and the Arctic Ocean.
2) I know that the Timor Sea is included as part of the Indian Ocean in the 2002 draft of IHO's Limits of Oceans and Seas, but in the third edition (the one still in force) this is not the case and the Indian Ocean does not reach as far as Timor-Leste (and even if you choose to ignore this point you should at least fix TL's subscript, because TL does not border the Flores Sea).
3) While Argentina and Chile are both correct answers, the Straits of Magellan have nothing to do with it. Those are entirely Chilean and entirely Pacific, so they are neither Argentina's reason for bordering the Pacific nor Chile's reason for bordering the Atlantic. Argentina borders the Pacific thanks to the Beagle Channel, and Chile borders the Atlantic thanks to its territory east of Cape Horn.
Before you make a comment, please research the boundaries of the oceans.
Here is a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_sea
When, after you engaged in such an argument, someone comes along and disparages your source without good reason and without presenting any evidence to the contrary or a compelling counter-argument, this is an appropriate time to respond with condescension.
It is either a sea which is part of an ocean, or else it is a big lake.
So you're saying it's just a big lake?
I think that would trigger Europeans just as equally.
Not sure which one counts for the Pacific, but either New Caledonia (special status) or French Polynesia and Wallis et Futuna (overseas collectivities) works.
Even without their mainland, France would still border the Atlantic (Caribbean sea) through, at least, French Guiana, Guadeloupe and Martinique (overseas regions).
But what 'external region' of France borders the Pacific? French Polynesia and Wallis and Futuna are semi-autonomous 'overseas collectivities', New Caledonia is an 'autonomous territory' and no other French territory borders the Pacific. Surely these are France's Guams rather than Hawaiis?
I always assumed this was the case and every Wikipedia article seems to confirm this as well.
Great quiz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgshFNbmor0#:~:text=there's%20only%20one%20oceans%20the,Antarctic%20Ocean%20as%20a%20fifth.
2) I know that the Timor Sea is included as part of the Indian Ocean in the 2002 draft of IHO's Limits of Oceans and Seas, but in the third edition (the one still in force) this is not the case and the Indian Ocean does not reach as far as Timor-Leste (and even if you choose to ignore this point you should at least fix TL's subscript, because TL does not border the Flores Sea).
3) While Argentina and Chile are both correct answers, the Straits of Magellan have nothing to do with it. Those are entirely Chilean and entirely Pacific, so they are neither Argentina's reason for bordering the Pacific nor Chile's reason for bordering the Atlantic. Argentina borders the Pacific thanks to the Beagle Channel, and Chile borders the Atlantic thanks to its territory east of Cape Horn.