100 Biggest Cities on a World Map

With the help of a map, try to name the 100 most populous urban areas in the world.
As of January 2021 according to citypopulation.de
Urban area population, not city proper population
Two loosely-defined areas around the Ruhr have been filled in
Quiz by relessness
Rate:
Last updated: February 28, 2021
First submittedOctober 24, 2016
Times taken210,862
Average score60.0%
Rating4.98
10:00
Enter city here
0
 / 100 guessed
The quiz is paused. You have remaining.
Scoring
You scored / = %
This beats or equals % of test takers also scored 100%
The average score is
Your high score is
Your fastest time is
Keep scrolling down for answers and more stats ...
 
Population
Urban Area
47.6 m
Guangzhou / Shenzhen
40.5 m
Tokyo
34.1 m
Shanghai / Suzhou
32.1 m
Jakarta
31.3 m
Delhi
26.3 m
Manila
25.6 m
Mumbai
25.0 m
Seoul
24.5 m
Mexico City
22.6 m
São Paulo
21.8 m
New York City
21.5 m
Cairo
20.3 m
Dhaka
20.1 m
Lagos
20.0 m
Beijing
19.4 m
Bangkok
18.2 m
Karachi
17.7 m
Osaka
17.6 m
Los Angeles
17.4 m
Moscow
17.0 m
Kolkata
16.6 m
Buenos Aires
16.2 m
Istanbul
15.5 m
Tehran
14.8 m
London
14.2 m
Johannesburg
13.9 m
Kinshasa
13.5 m
Lahore
13.3 m
Rio de Janeiro
13.2 m
Tianjin
12.7 m
Bangalore
11.6 m
Chennai
11.4 m
Paris
11.1 m
Lima
Population
Urban Area
10.6 m
Ho Chi Minh City
10.5 m
Nagoya
10.4 m
Hyderabad
10.2 m
Xiamen
10.0 m
Chengdu
9.80 m
Bogotá
9.65 m
Chicago
9.25 m
Wuhan
9.15 m
Kuala Lumpur
9.15 m
Taipei
8.75 m
Ahmedabad
8.60 m
Hangzhou
8.55 m
Washington / Baltimore
8.45 m
Luanda
8.40 m
Chongqing
8.40 m
Riyadh
8.10 m
Shenyang
7.90 m
Singapore
7.80 m
Santiago
7.75 m
San Francisco
7.75 m
Shantou
7.70 m
Boston
7.65 m
Toronto
7.55 m
Hong Kong
7.35 m
Philadelphia
7.30 m
Dallas
7.15 m
Baghdad
7.10 m
Pune
7.10 m
Xi'an
7.05 m
Bandung
6.90 m
Surat
6.80 m
Houston
6.70 m
Madrid
6.70 m
Nanjing
Population
Urban Area
6.50 m
Khartoum
6.45 m
Dar es Salaam
6.35 m
Miami
6.25 m
Qingdao
6.15 m
Milan
6.15 m
Surabaya
6.10 m
Nairobi
5.95 m
Alexandria
5.90 m
Atlanta
5.75 m
Abidjan
5.75 m
Detroit
5.75 m
Yangon
5.70 m
Amman
5.70 m
Dubai
5.65 m
The Ruhr
5.65 m
Saint Petersburg
5.60 m
Monterrey
5.50 m
Guadalajara
5.40 m
Sydney
5.40 m
Wenzhou
5.20 m
Accra
5.15 m
Ankara
5.15 m
Harbin
5.15 m
Jeddah
5.10 m
Hefei
5.10 m
Zhengzhou
5.05 m
Belo Horizonte
5.05 m
Changsha
5.05 m
Melbourne
5.00 m
Chittagong
5.00 m
Cologne / Düsseldorf
4.88 m
Barcelona
4.85 m
Kano
4.83 m
Colombo
+56
Level ∞
Feb 28, 2021
2021 update. Goodbye Berlin. Hello, Kano.
+12
Level 75
Oct 24, 2016
Great! I was hoping to have them shown in alphabetical order so I could get a hint on the ones I couldn't find. I didn't get Belo but I don't see any missing dots in Brazil
+5
Level 47
Oct 24, 2016
Oops, Added in the Belo dot. :)
+9
Level 56
Oct 24, 2016
Nobody calls it Belo in Brazil and I was born there. BH is a more usual alternative name for the city.
+3
Level ∞
Oct 25, 2016
Belo means beautiful, so that's no true @dunkinggandalf. The Wikipedia page lists these three nicknames: "BH", "The Garden City", and "Belô". If anyone else from Brazil is reading, please comment with your opinion.
+15
Level 48
May 24, 2017
yeah i dont ever heard anyone calling it Belo. BH is the most commom nickname for the city.
+32
Level 52
Nov 14, 2017
I'm from Brazil, and I endorse, 99,9% of us just say "BH" (pronounced "beh-ah-GAH") or "Belo Horizonte" (pronounced colloquially contracted "belorizont"), never heard before this supposed nickname for the city. If you say to a Brazilian from a nearby city: "I'm going to Belo today", they are going to confirm: "Huh... where? Belo Horizonte?", since isn't common at all calling the city like that. All that said, I have a personal preference of not typing too much, so I like to skip the "horizonte" part, hahahahahaha... The person who put it on Wikipedia was just trying to popularize the nickname, I suppose... Rio de Janeiro may seems the same for a few people, but isn't: Just saying "Rio" is pretty common and used in official ads and tourism guides...
+10
Level ∞
Feb 20, 2019
Thanks to the people from Brazil who have commented. Belo will no longer be an acceptable type-in, and BH will.
+12
Level 82
Feb 20, 2019
So, after all these years, Belo is no good any more? Like everyone else, I'm used to being able to type Belo, and it didn't occur to me to type the whole name when it didn't work. Where's the "dislike" button?
+48
Level ∞
Feb 20, 2019
One thing I've learned with running this site is that no matter what I do people will complain. It's one of the reasons I've very hesitant to change things.
+17
Level 43
Mar 6, 2019
Don't worry about it quizmaster. People just need to think a bit more. I tried "Belo" and when it didn't work I looked at the dot and tried Brasilia. Then I figured I needed the spell the whole thing cause that dot couldn't be anything else!
+8
Level 71
Apr 28, 2019
I was surprised when I tried Bhopal and it gave me Belo Horizonte.
+9
Level 77
Apr 28, 2019
QM, maybe instead of removing Belo, just add BH. That way everyone should be happy except me who didn't know either one.
+14
Level 67
Jun 7, 2019
BH means bra in my language.. So dont tell someone to remove the BH haha
+9
Level 50
May 26, 2020
i mean if your gonna accept "BH" you have to accept L.A..

When was the last time you heard anyone say LOS ANGELES?

+4
Level 50
Aug 15, 2020
like please im tired of spelling los angeles

maybe not percisely LA, but L A , or L.A.

it is still better than los angeles.

+4
Level 73
Mar 1, 2021
"I was surprised when I tried Bhopal and it gave me Belo Horizonte."

Ohhhhh, I was wondering what was getting filled in when I've tried typing that on other quizzes

+1
Level 56
Jul 19, 2021
@penguintorpedo, jetpunk does not accept spaces or punctuation. You could type L A?S A n ()()(gel A :s and it would work.
+4
Level 63
Sep 29, 2021
I'll overlook the spelling mistake, but that doesn't really prove anything. What Penguin is trying to say is that since Belo Horizonte is commonly abbreviated as BH and is accepted, why can't Los Angeles be abbreviated as LA because it's more commonly used?
+3
Level 33
Jan 3, 2021
best score on this quiz is 99; That time the one I missed was Changsha
+2
Level 27
Jan 20, 2021
Finally got them all in 4:02
+3
Level 82
Oct 24, 2016
Wonderful quiz! I love it. Great work
+2
Level 60
Dec 27, 2016
+1
+7
Level 87
Oct 24, 2016
Great quiz. Really need to brush up on my east Asia cities. Getting better over time though!
+4
Level 81
Oct 24, 2016
Enjoyed this very much. Took me a while cycling through possibilities to get the last three Chinese cities, but I made it in the end. Figures seem to vary quite widely by source when it comes to the populations of Chinese cities, so it's always a challenge to work out which are being included and which aren't. I suppose the dense population of the coastal provinces makes it tricky at times to work out where one city ends and another begins and administrative boundaries aren't much use, as most 'municipalities' include the surrounding countryside as well as the city.
+2
Level 47
Dec 27, 2016
Got cities in every other continent on this map except for Asia. Lots of Chinese cities I missed.
+5
Level 61
Sep 1, 2019
I don’t want to be rude or offensive or anything, but all the cities I missed were in China (except for two in Indonesia) and a feel that this quiz was mostly “Largest Cities in China”.
+6
Level 35
Jan 28, 2020
It's not exactly China's fault it has so many cities in the top 100
+2
Level 66
Feb 8, 2021
Same here; of the 13 I missed, 10 were Chinese
+2
Level 75
Feb 28, 2021
Well actually, it technically was "Largest Cities in China". It was largest 20 cities in China as well as the largest 80 cities not in China.
+2
Level 61
Dec 27, 2016
Missed a few in China and India. But finally, a quiz that allows you to type Melbourne with the E. But why is Dar just acceptable for Dar es Salaam?
+9
Level 61
Dec 27, 2016
Apparently it's commonly called "Dar" by people in Tanzania, so it's accepted as a nickname.
+2
Level 65
Dec 27, 2016
Awesome quiz with the map. Got 92. Missed 2 in India and 6 in China.
+11
Level 50
Dec 27, 2016
THOSE STUPID CHINESE CITIES! Only got 76 ;(
+14
Level 67
Mar 21, 2019
Yep, 1.3 billion people. Definitely stupid
+1
Level 32
Feb 25, 2022
1.4 billion
+1
Level 34
Jun 17, 2022
I have got them all right. Chinese cities are easy.
+2
Level 58
Dec 27, 2016
This was a good quiz. I got 94 and I missed 1 in India and 5 in China.
+1
Level 58
Nov 12, 2021
Update: took the quiz 5 years later and got all 100, although I spent a lot of time on 99 since I couldn't think of the last Chinese city left.
+9
Level 50
Dec 27, 2016
Every biggest cities quiz should be made without china and India...
+13
Level 52
Jan 13, 2017
100 Biggest Cities on a World Map With Exceptions - completely exclude China and India and see what other cities make the list.
+2
Level 56
Jul 19, 2021
And USA.
+1
Level 32
Feb 25, 2022
Nope... not India! because I am in India XD
+3
Level 56
Dec 28, 2016
Hefei is not positioned quite right. It is farther south than Nanjing.
+2
Level 56
Dec 29, 2016
How do you get the 7.6 million figure for San Francisco? On it's wiki, it says its population is less than 900 thousand.
+12
Level 59
Jan 10, 2017
Urban area, not just the city itself
+3
Level 63
Feb 16, 2017
Well I was doing just fine and dandy, and then I got to Asia...
+2
Level 66
May 20, 2017
Got 74/100, didn't miss anything outside of Asia. Only mad about missing one. Ho Chi Minh. I just glossed over Vietnam!
+2
Level 47
Jan 3, 2021
Good job! It took me a couple of tries to get 100% and I only had like 20 seconds left.
+2
Level 51
May 24, 2017
constantinople
+17
Level 54
Mar 12, 2018
It's been ninety-five years since Constantinople was last called Constantinople.
+16
Level 53
Jan 17, 2019
That's nobody's business but the Turks
+2
Level 51
Oct 16, 2017
Same gigaflops, but for me it was 5 Chinese lol, first try
+3
Level 46
Nov 14, 2017
79/100 them bloody Chinese cities are tough haha
+4
Level 25
Nov 15, 2017
28/100 with the first go. I feel like an idiot as (being from Europe) I couldn't even think of all the European cities. Well, on the positive side: plenty of room for improvement. LOVE THIS QUIZ!
+2
Level 45
Mar 12, 2018
I think many in China and Africa are still missing.
+4
Level 67
Mar 13, 2018
I like to consider myself pretty global so this quiz proved to be a bitter humble pie. Two billion plus people are in India and China alone and I was only able to name but a handful of the cities they call home. I need take better notice.
+2
Level 53
Mar 21, 2018
Nice! I did 98/100 i missed 2 chinese cities
+2
Level 50
Jun 2, 2018
great quiz!

i got all of them except Changsha Zengzhou and Wenzhou although i did recognize them after.

+3
Level 71
Jun 21, 2018
Good quiz, I think Surabaja should count.
+2
Level 65
Aug 4, 2018
Got 92 I missed 2 in Indonesia and the rest in china
+3
Level 53
Jan 17, 2019
I don't know India and China very well.
+2
Level 76
Feb 11, 2019
Please accept Poone for Pune, as Bombay is accepted for Mumbai, Calcutta for Kolkata, and Madras for Chennai, thanks
+9
Level ∞
Feb 20, 2019
Or you could just type Pune. In any case, the old name for the city is Poona not Poone.
+4
Level 76
Nov 19, 2019
Oh whoops, I meant to write 'Poona'.
+4
Level 81
Feb 21, 2019
Shouldn't you accept just "Belo" as in every other quiz as well? Missed that one because I didn't type in "Horizonte".
+4
Level ∞
Feb 21, 2019
This is why I don't change things. Some people really wanted me to not accept Belo because nobody calls it that. BH will work now however.
+2
Level 34
Mar 6, 2019
Same
+1
Level 43
Sep 28, 2021
Nobody calls it Belo in Brazil, it's BH
+3
Level 40
Feb 21, 2019
Could you accept Chattogram in addition to Chittagong? The city officially changed its name to this in 2018.
+2
Level ∞
Feb 21, 2019
Yes
+22
Level 75
Mar 4, 2019
Ah yes, Chattogram - the really low tech precursor to MSN Messenger
+4
Level 73
Mar 1, 2021
This is revenge for the whole colonialism thing, isn't it? Every few months it seems I have to re-learn the name of a S. Asian city :(
+2
Level 70
Jan 15, 2022
I don't think Bangladeshis (or Indians) really care that much. "Chattogram" is more common, but tons of Bengalis still say "Chittagong." Maybe in a few decades, Chattogram will catch on more outside Bangladesh, the way Mumbai and Chennai did, but for now feel free to call it what you wish :)
+4
Level 61
Apr 19, 2019
I’m wondering why Cologne is always grayed out? Wouldn’t it be enough to accept both Cologne and Dusseldorf instead of always giving it away as a freebie? I think Johannesburg and Pretoria work that way in most quizzes.
+3
Level 80
Apr 29, 2019
I think it covers the whole ruhr area, Dusseldorf, Dortmund, Cologne, Essen etc
+1
Level 58
May 19, 2021
No it does not. "The Ruhr" is a separate answer, which is greyed out too.

I am wondering why they don't accept Cologne or Düsseldorf as type ins as well.

+3
Level 57
Apr 28, 2019
Need to brush up on my Chinese knowledge...
+3
Level 67
Apr 28, 2019
I can never spell Sri Lanka’s capital so I’m glad Colombo is accepted as an answer!
+7
Level 55
Jun 20, 2020
Colombo is a different city. It is not the same as Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte, the new capital.
+2
Level 23
Dec 6, 2020
That's why Kotte is accepted, additionally!
+2
Level 50
Apr 29, 2019
98/100 I missed Nagoya and Qingdao i'm salty
+3
Level 46
May 4, 2019
99/100 :l .... why does this have to happen to me
+2
Level 75
Jul 2, 2019
80/100 not great but I definitely need to brush up on those obscure Chinese cities. Also I put surubaya 😢 but whatever, good quiz
+2
Level 53
Aug 6, 2019
Damn, got 99/100. Must have typed Zhangzhou by accident... Great quiz!
+3
Level 48
Aug 31, 2019
Excuse me but Guangzhou has a population of 13 million, it's the Pearl River Delta that has 40+ million.
+7
Level 81
Feb 3, 2020
Ever traveled in the PRD? If you're coming from HK, once you cross the border from the SAR into Shenzhen, you never leave an urban area as you travel up to Guangzhou. Once three separate cities, Guangzhou, Dongguan and Shenzhen have completely merged along with many smaller cities and towns.
+2
Level 54
Oct 16, 2019
90/100
+3
Level 66
Nov 11, 2019
I can barely find those cities on China using a map. Not fun.
+2
Level 17
Nov 19, 2019
I got 100% and I'm not one of those people who use google or anything like that. I am such a nerd
+2
Level 54
Dec 24, 2019
Shouldn't Qiqihar be on here? It has a population of around 5.5 million people.
+2
Level 81
Feb 3, 2020
I think that's in its administrative areas. A lot of prefecture-level and municipality-level Chinese cities include far more people in their administrative boundaries than the actual urban or metro population. It's the reverse of the US where many administrative boundaries only enclose a small part of the actual metro population.
+2
Level 51
Dec 30, 2019
why don't you accept abu dhabi
+13
Level 81
Feb 3, 2020
Because it isn't big enough...
+1
Level 56
May 29, 2022
Size doesn't matter
+2
Level 62
Mar 23, 2020
I totally thought I was making up a couple Chinese cities, but they were actually correct.
+2
Level 47
Apr 2, 2020
i purposefully made stuff up and got one of them
+2
Level 15
Apr 11, 2020
Hey, I was wondering if anyone knew what the city in the Middle East between Israel Jordan and Palestine is? It’s not Jerusalem or Amman, and i couldn’t find anything else, so what is it!
+6
Level 60
Apr 12, 2020
Did you say the countries wrong? There's only one dot between israel, jordan, and Palestine, and it's Amman.
+2
Level 15
Apr 12, 2020
Oof
+8
Level 42
Apr 19, 2020
The increase in people naming Wuhan must be decent now aha
+2
Level 56
Jun 5, 2020
Got 94 and forgot Jeddah. Also almost forgot Hong Kong
+2
Level 52
Jul 9, 2020
Forgot Wuhan *facepalm*
+3
Level 81
Jan 10, 2022
Nowadays, no one is ever likely to forget Wuhan.
+2
Level 47
Sep 3, 2020
Some of these numbers seem a bit high. 22 million in NYC? That can't be true, because there's only 19 million in the entire state.
+7
Level 54
Oct 27, 2020
This is the urban area population, so it includes suburbs that are out of New York state borders.
+1
Level 81
Jan 10, 2022
Much of New Jersey, Connecticut, and a bit of Pennsylvania are within the NYC greater metro area.
+2
Level 45
Sep 29, 2020
Only missed Nanjing and Zhengzhou.
+2
Level 54
Oct 2, 2020
Embarrassingly missed Surabaya
+2
Level 50
Oct 20, 2020
BH shouldn't be accepted for Bell Horizonte if LA isn't going to be accepted for Los Angeles.
+11
Level 75
Feb 28, 2021
BH - no other (major) cities start with BH (With the exception of Bhopal, India)

LA - Las Vegas, Lagos and Lahore (the last 2 are on this quiz)

So no.

+2
Level 38
Mar 1, 2021
That doesn't matter
+4
Level 54
Mar 28, 2021
When people try to typein la las vegas, lahore, and lagos will show up
+1
Level 49
May 1, 2021
Can we also have KL instead of Kuala Lumpur? No one really calls it the latter
+2
Level 22
Nov 21, 2020
I got 98 on my first try but I still missed Beijing.
+2
Level 38
Nov 23, 2020
I cant believe I completed the quiz with1:58 left!
+2
Level 22
Nov 23, 2020
I got 2:12 left.I have 6 minutes left until I reach the chinese cities
+2
Level 58
Dec 15, 2020
97, missed 1 chinese, 1 indian, and 1 indonesian
+3
Level 53
Dec 30, 2020
78, missed a majority of Chinese cities
+2
Level 55
Jan 2, 2021
95. Missed 4 Chinese, 1 Indonesian
+2
Level 43
Jan 30, 2021
most of the US cities are by far too big in this list....
+2
Level 50
Feb 15, 2021
Hanoi has a population of 8 Million!!
+3
Level 75
Feb 28, 2021
According to the source, Hanoi is 4,025,000 - not big enough for the quiz.
+2
Level 73
Feb 25, 2021
Is SJK no longer accepted for Sri Lanka's capital?
+6
Level 82
Feb 28, 2021
This quiz is asking for the urban areas. SJK, or "Kotte" is considered a satellite city to the Columbo urban area.
+2
Level 54
Feb 28, 2021
great, thanks for updating the quiz!
+3
Level 58
Feb 28, 2021
I finally got 100% on this quiz yesterday, and now it's updated. The timing...
+2
Level 84
Mar 1, 2021
99/100 and beaten by 23.1% of people. Wow, people on jetpunk really know their big cities.
+1
Level 55
Mar 10, 2021
Where'd you get ur sources? Very Inaccurate quiz
+8
Level 55
Mar 13, 2021
So inaccurate that you can't even provide an example.
+2
Level 27
Mar 10, 2021
got 92! I got all but Pune, Bandung, Surabaya, Shantou, Wenzhou, Nanjing, Hangzhou, and Qingdao
+2
Level 27
Mar 10, 2021
lol I can't believe I missed Nanjing, I've heard of that city many times
+1
Level 49
Jan 31, 2022
Well, a lot of Chinese cities are missed. So this has to be genuine.
+3
Level 36
Mar 20, 2021
There is absolutely no way that Hefei is bigger than Dalian
+1
Level 55
Oct 6, 2021
there is a way
+2
Level 69
Apr 5, 2021
only missed hefei :(
+2
Level 28
Apr 18, 2021
Respect to the people who got all the Chinese cities. I hope to be there one day.
+1
Level 61
May 9, 2021
I want to type-in Bhopal,but I got Belo Horizonte,actually,I don't know this before...

How funny!

+2
Level 48
May 17, 2021
in your map, HEFEI in China is dotted wrongly. In reality, Hefei is west of Nanjing. In your map, it´s norwest of Nanjing.
+1
Level 38
Jul 13, 2021
99%... missed Shantou :(
+1
Level 85
Oct 8, 2021
Same here. I seem to frequently miss Shantou. Maybe I'll make a special effort to remember it next time.
+4
Level 89
Aug 17, 2021
Points to note about using the urban area: Of the big two Tokyo metro area is actually only around 14 million and the wider area used here covers the same area as the whole of Maryland; none of the sub cities would make the list on their own; Guangzhou/Shenzhen is also clearly on the list with about 23M in their metro areas but also has the sub-cities of Foshan and Dongguan at around 7M each.

Suzhou would also make the list at about 11M but makes sense to be included with Shanghai as a large number commute in both directions and they are going to open a metro line to connect them fairly soon.

No other agglomeration on the list has a satellite/sub-city which would make the list in its own right. However of the others: Johannesburg seems to be less than half the city itself (with 6M in East Rand West Rand and Pretoria); Singapore and Detroit both include areas in other countries; and Shantou, Dubai, Guadalajara, Wenzhou and Taipei would not make the list excluding satellite cities.

+1
Level 89
Aug 17, 2021
Not complaining, just pointing out some hopefully interesting nuggets from using this methodology.
+1
Level 57
Sep 24, 2021
I am very close now, only missed 3 of the Chinese cities to get 100%... one day :D
+1
Level 54
Oct 4, 2021
why is Hong Kong grayed out?
+1
Level 46
Oct 6, 2021
Most obvious one I missed was Taipei, didn't notice it out of the sea of other dots in and around China
+2
Level 20
Nov 16, 2021
You cant count guangzhou and shenzhen together, they are both tier one cities
+1
Level 49
Jan 31, 2022
I don't think so.

As far as I know, the area around the Pearl River delta is to be combined into a single megacity. And this is what I found on the web.

*Called the “Turn The Pearl River Delta Into One” scheme, the plan will effectively merge Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Dongguan, Foshan, Huizhou, Zhaoqing, Jiangmen, Zhongshan, and Zhuhai into a single megacity with a geographical size larger than Switzerland. *

Whereas, some cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen are already combined.

+1
Level 20
Nov 16, 2021
Mumbai urban area population is 42 million and delhi is 200 000 less than mumbai, I sat down and added them up together
+2
Level 55
Nov 30, 2021
9 cities in India and 12 in USA? Something doesn't add up....
+1
Level 49
Jan 31, 2022
Exactly...
+2
Level 51
Dec 5, 2021
I think Busan should be added, it has 8.6 million people for it's metro area
+1
Level 49
Jan 31, 2022
I think the location of Hefei is a little towards the southwest. On this map, it's in the place of Bengbu(on the original map).
+1
Level 43
Jan 31, 2022
is it just me or did shantou just not exist until this quiz
+1
Level 49
Mar 5, 2022
I think citypopulation.de's website has been updated for 2022 data. Look here.
+1
Level 35
Apr 22, 2022
all of them with 5:11 left
+1
Level 54
Jun 7, 2022
92/100, china stumped me
+1
Level 25
Jun 11, 2022
100 on the first try means I really need to get a life
+1
Level 34
Jun 17, 2022
What are the two grey dots in western Germany?