Beyond citypopulation.de's 242 countries lie a few more states claiming to be countries as well - can you name them? We exclude a delightful list of micronations you might want to have a read of sometime.
I think that was the one I was trying to type, but made it into something like Arbakh ang gave up. A combo of abkazia, karabakh and artsakh..
And askabath kept going through my mind.. (Ashgabat). Anyway, I big mess all I knew for sure there was atleast one place starting with an a on here haha
Quite possibly! Although if you look at the instructions for each quiz, you'll see why each is in each quiz: Answers in Countries 197 to 205 are drawn only from nations listed in citypopulation.de's country list, whereas answers here do not appear in citypopulation.de.
What a pain to see here Somaliland, a country that has been de facto independant since 1993, has managed to conduct cleaner and more democratic elections than 90% of african countries, and has developed a political stable model, when world's attention is focused on the failed state of Somalia, where UN's money only serve corrupted politicians...
Somaliland's model should be adapted to Somalia, not the western one!
Exactly. Somaliland might have plenty of problems, but it's still more significantly more stable and democratic than the rest of Somalia. In some ways I think it's more of a country than Somalia because it actually has a functioning government. I totally agree with @Victoulapin, even if it isn't recognized by anyone, it has a much better claim to being an independent country than most of the "countries" here and here.
Grantma: by whom? According to most of the world, Northern Cyprus is part of the country of Cyprus, which is a different thing, and has been illegally occupied by Turkey. According to the government of Northern Cyprus and of Turkey, it's the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. That's it's official name. Even those (very few) entities that recognize TRNC's legitimacy and sovereignty don't call it simply "Cyprus."
Having visited both Northern Cyprus and the southern Republic of Cyprus, they each function as fully independent countries. Frankly, Northern Cyprus's non-recognition, beyond by Turkey, completely baffles me.
Would be nice if 'trnc' was an accepted type-in, as it's official name is Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, and it's commonly referred to as the TRNC (in much the same way that North Macedonia used to be known by its acronym FYROM).
why is Catalonia on this list? If one includes Catalonia then Scotland, Wales, Brittany, Corsica, Flanders and Bavaria - and certainly Kurdistan - should be on it too
As someone from Flanders, it shouldn't be on this list. I can guarantee you that if a referendum is held today that not a lot of people would vote for independence. It wouldn't even be close to 50%. The 2 separatist parties might get 50% in polls, but that's because of immigration problems and also to say a f*ck you to our political system which is beyond broken.
As much as I am supportive of the Catalan independence movement, Catalonia doesn't have anything like the autonomy of any of the others in the list. It also has less autonomy than the constituent parts of the UK, for instance.
It has held a few referenda but never actually declared independence from Spain.
The Parliament of Catalonia passed a declaration of independence on 27 October 2017, following a referendum that produced a 90% vote in favour of independence. The central Spanish government keeps wailing that both were "illegal" - but all votes of independence anywhere have always been "illegal". History is littered with big groups trying to cling onto smaller groups, even when the smaller groups want to leave - USA from Great Britain in 1776, Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1971, Timor-Leste from Indonesia in 1975 to name but three.
The 'vote' was illegal and unacceptable anywhere in the democratic world. Polling stations were broken into; there were no electoral lists; there were no precautions against multiple voting; the elections were boycotted by over half the electorate. There has been no election ever in Catalonia where independence or parties supporting it have obtained over 50% of the electorate and the only reason there is the slimmest of majorities for independence parties in the regional parliament are the vagaries of the electoral system - they never actually win the popular vote. It was a vote for one side only, akin to elections in the Soviet Union and other dictatorships. The Catalans overwhelmingly supported the current Spanish constitution when it was put to referendum and had input into drawing it up. The Constitution outlines the process by which it could be modified thereby allowing Catalan independence. You giving credibility to them here is shameful
The fact that it was legal or not is not the most important here. Yes, Catalonia tried to take their independance. But they failed, at least for the moment, Spain has taken direct control of the region, Catalonia is not a sovereign country right now. To be continued...
*Have* all votes of independence anywhere been illegal, though? What about South Sudan, Timor-Leste in 1999, Malta, Liberia/Maryland, Samoa, the Marshall Islands, etc? What about even votes that failed to gain enough support but would almost certainly be honored, such as Scotland and Puerto Rico?
It certainly isn't surprising when a country refuses to recognize the independence of one of its constituent parts, but the alternative is also possible. I don't think you should automatically assume that calling a referendum illegal is done in bad faith.
I don't necessarily think it's done in good faith, either, I'm just saying it's quite borderline for this particular grouping. Life tends to be complicated.
I have a feeling that Catalonia doesn't deserve to be in this quiz considering that all the other countries in this quiz are technically functioning like a real country - with actual government acting independently from the home country - while Catalonia just declared independence and was kicked out before anything... Anyways nice quiz!
Kurdistan has stepped back from declaring independence and Catalonia is no more independent than Scotland either. However Bougainville has voted overwhelmingly for independence and there are votes pending in Chuuk (Truk, FSM) and New Caledonia....
There is a major difference between Scotland and Catalonia. Scotland rejected independence at its most recent referendum. Catalonia voted for independence at its most recent referendum, and followed that up with a declaration of independence by its parliament. It'll be interesting to see how things play out in Bougainville, Chuuk and New Caledonia over the coming period.
As mentioned before, Catalonia voted in a referendum with a 40% turnout that was neither free nor fair with well-documented abuses and that was boycotted by the other side. Pro independence forces have never collectively obtained more than 50% of the vote in any election in Catalonia with at least a 50% turnout. The 'declaration' by the regional government is meaningless, comparing this with other countries' struggles for freedom against oppression is insulting - given that there actually is a legal constitutional way for Catalonia to gain independence. Please delete it from this quiz, along with Kurdistan who have also held back from declaring or seeking independence. Good to see that New Caledonia have rejected independence twice in 2 referenda in 2 years now.
Why so pleased the Noumeans cling to imperial coat-tails?
It's a beautiful place, with ample resources (including one of the largest natural deposits of nickel in the world) which could do without it's wealth being leeched away by French companies.
You might include as well Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, which seceded from Ukraine in 2014 (although most say they are Russian puppet-States, which however could apply as a definition also to Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria).
Oh yeah. Catalonia. Should have guessed that. Especially with the thumbnail which I just noticed, duh. I was trying to remember the names of both Spanish exclaves in Africa. That's the only one I missed other than the one in Azerbaijan never heard of that one. I've been by South Ossetia, and spent about a week in Northern Cyprus before. Transnistria I remember as being the only place that wouldn't accept my car's paperwork for entry and so I had to drive around it on my way to Ukraine. (Serbia would later become the only place that accepted the paperwork on the way in but did not accept it on the way out and used this as a pretext to steal my car - I preferred the Transnistrian's approach)
oh wait I have heard of the Azerbaijani one. That's that disputed exclave that's also claimed by Armenia, I think. I knew that was there. Wouldn't have remembered the name, though.
I keep checking back in the hope you will correct the two serious errors here but you seem happy to leave something simply wrong standing. Kurdistan has not declared independence and while the 2017 referendum was in favour, the Iraqi Supreme Court has declared secession illegal and the Regional Government has officially accepted this legal decision. Catalonia likewise is still clearly part of Spain and fully participates as part of the nation state, the referendum was both undemocratic and illegal and there have been no moves to attempt the legal path open to them. The other entities actually exist with full and unique functioning sovereignty over the territories in their hands (although in the case of SADR the land actually controlled is far less than that claimed!). It would be nice if this quiz finally reflects real world reality...
Please read the instructions. Secessions have generally been declared "illegal" by the larger power that wants to continue to assert authority over it, although from the perspective of the nations that just want to leave and get on with life, it's perfectly legal. History is full of these cases, USA from the UK in the 1700's, Bangladesh from Pakistan in the 1970's and East Timor from Indonesia in the 2000's, to name just three. In each of those cases a bloody war of independence was fought before the seceding nations got their way.
I just want to lead my life and get on without the U.S. government. Can I declare independence? What if I get a friend? What if I get 3 friends? 1000 friends? What is the the smallest group of people that you think should be able to unilaterally declare independence? These are not easy questions.
The answer to your first question is that you can indeed. If you look to the list of micronations that you can link to from the instructions, it looks like several of these are the brainchild of a single person :) Getting widespread recognition, though, is another matter.
but a war was necessary to get the widespread recognition required for independence. A UDI is simply a UDI, an act of rebellion, nothing more. The US' declaration of independence was effectively worthless until the Republic was recognised by France and other enemies of the UK and a war won forcing the latter to recognise the independence of its former colony. No one recognises Catalan independence and they have rowed back on it. Kurdistan has deliberately avoided even declaring UDI. Bougainville at least is on the path and SADR is recognised by many nations, although it only exercises true sovereignty over a fraction of its claimed territory. But you seem to have some other motivation than unbiased quiz-setting in this refusal to make the changes
I hope I'm not being as dim as some of the other commenters here, but how about Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic? It seems just like the obverse of Nagorno-Karabakh to me
Most importantly, they didn't declare independence, even if they have a pretty independent rule, at least until the recent crackdown on that. Similar to Puntland in Somalia and probably other regions around the world.
and Turkey and Iraq and that is the problem. Not even Iraqi Kurdistan has declared independence and none of the countries who currently own Kurdish lands are going to let them go without a fight
why has SADR been deleted from the list? Bougainville has more claim to be included than Kurdistan and Catalonia. You might as well include Scotland if you continue to ignore the reality of Catalonia and Kurdistan's clear refusal to go down the path of independence
Hey! The link in the description confuses me. I heard of way more independentist movements that were more serious than the ones in the wikipedia list but less important than the one in the quiz. Where are they?
Still incorrectly includes Catalonia and Kurdistan. Bougainville have actually voted for independence in a legal legitimate referendum (and will be independent by the end of the decade, probably) and you do not include them; Catalonia voted in an illegal, flawed, undemocratic referendum yet you do include them. Parts of Kurdistan lie in 4 different sovereign states, NONE of which have declared independence or held a referendum yet here they are on this quiz. Are you ever going to correct these blatant errors or is it just a political point you want to make rather than a proper quiz?
The legality isn't really the issue for this quiz, a bigger problem is that there's zero independence in practice, and the rather low support at the referendum due to low turnout. Chechnya should be included way before Catalonia.
And askabath kept going through my mind.. (Ashgabat). Anyway, I big mess all I knew for sure there was atleast one place starting with an a on here haha
Somaliland's model should be adapted to Somalia, not the western one!
Oh wait Somalia isn't any better...
well, at any rate, both Cyprus and North Cyprus are wrong.
It has held a few referenda but never actually declared independence from Spain.
It certainly isn't surprising when a country refuses to recognize the independence of one of its constituent parts, but the alternative is also possible. I don't think you should automatically assume that calling a referendum illegal is done in bad faith.
I don't necessarily think it's done in good faith, either, I'm just saying it's quite borderline for this particular grouping. Life tends to be complicated.
It's a beautiful place, with ample resources (including one of the largest natural deposits of nickel in the world) which could do without it's wealth being leeched away by French companies.
Vive la Revolution!!!